To resent having to apply to 'secret' companies?

[CulturalBear]

I'm job searching at the moment, current job is not great, so time to change.

However, I've discovered that something like 75-90% of all jobs being advertised are now through agencies, which don't reveal who it is you'd be applying to.

I have never applied through an agency for a job before, as I don't believe it's right to not know who you're applying to - but it now seems that such a small fraction of available jobs are advertised openly that I may no longer have a choice.

AIBU to resent the fact that these people expect me to tell them all about myself, when they won't even tell us the name of the company, let alone specifics of job descriptions etc.

What if I end up inadvertently applying to a rival, or worse, my own company?

No company name, no application. It's not unheard of for agencies not to have an actual job (shocking, I know) and just be after your cv.

Yep agree with above. Agencies just invent jobs to get you on their books.

Just to be clear - you mean the agencies won't tell you if you ask them? They don't normally put names in ads as other agencies will try to pinch the business.

Apparently it's because other agencies will start trying to poach clients from other recruiters (according to my recruitment mate). Usually they use phrases which identify the company if you google them eg "innovative manufacturing company renowned for blah blah blah" + location usually gets me the company, or try the job title as they may have it on their company website also.
Also if you phone the agency to discuss applying they will tell you (and you can usually get a salary from them too) IME, means you get some actual discussion too rather than just being judged on your faceless CV.

Agencies will normally only be allowed to pass two CVs to the company (sometimes more, but still single digits). The idea is that the agency does all the sifting and submits the best candidates for the job.
The process usually includes contacting you, providing more information about the company and the role, before confirming you are happy for your CV to be submitted to the company.
It is not in the agency's interests to forward on your CV without verifying your interest in the role as they will annoy their customer and potentially lose commission.

That's a good tip Peppermint - I didn't know that.

I am shocked but wouldn't be surprised if agencies were just fishing for CVs in some cases - the ads are so ridiculously vague.

Looks like the jobs market has changed a lot in the last 2 and a half years, but then I wanted to work here, so was actively checking the website every week.

I don't apply for jobs through agencies, in the charitable sector it is often possible to tell what the organisation is from the description as some are quite specific. But I agree, it is a PITA, there are some organisations I wouldn't want to work for for ethical reasons.

It's tough though - that's a huge time investment the applicant needs to make before even getting to the stage where they know if they want to apply IYSWIM.

For example, I was always taught to tailor your CV to the company and job spec, to make sure it is as relevant as possible.

I work full time, spending hours on the phone chasing speculative options is really not feasible!

I hate agencies. Some years ago, when looking for office positions, I went on countless interviews - often I was not at all what they were looking for, or the job was completely unsuitable. I once had a second interview, was told by the company that I had the job, but was rung by the agency the next day to say they (the agency) had offered it to someone else.

I agree. I am job hunting at the moment- I need.a change and I refuse to apply for jobs where the employer is not mentioned. I think it is rude to leave out important information.

CulturalBear

You haven't been approached by any agencies have you ? There are some people out there, who contact you, as "agencies" and tell you all about their exclusive "clients", and invite you in for an "interview" to discuss your c.v.

They thnen tell you about how most vacancies aren't advertised, and there's a "darknet" of jobs that only go to those "in the know".

The sucker punch is that it will only cost you £3,000 (this was in 2009) to turbocharge your c.v. and put you in touch with the hidden jobs market.

NEVER PAY MONEY TO FIND A JOB.

Apologies if this seems OT, but be careful folks.

Good god LurkingHusband that doesn't happen does it?

I'm so out of touch!

I've not been contacted, which is a good thing - I wouldn't want it to get out that I'm looking at this moment in time.

Yes recruiters do 'fish' for candidates. But if you are a good candidate then a good recruiter will then call all their contacts and market your CV. Even if the company didn't have a vacancy registered with the agency, as this is how the agency gets new business.

Again a good recruiter would speak to you to find out what companies you don't want to work for, it's not in their interest to market a candidate to a client and then find the candidate isn't interested,as they look silly.

Unfortunately not all recruiters are good and some just spam your CV to their client without any skill. Or have a target to register 10 new candidates and you are just a number.

If you are talking to them about you, then ask about them. Find out how long they have done the job for. Basically interview them right back. But don't be sarky about it.

But a good recruiter will,help you find a job.

This does annoy me. I registered with an agency in 2009 and had 1 interview (for a partner role when I had less than 1 year PQE and was conveniently based in an office 400 miles from my front door, when I had confirmed the position and distance I was willing to travel with the agency). I asked the agency to remove me from their books and heard nothing again. Until last week. Twice. They asked if I was working and whether I wanted a new job. I confirmed I was happy in my role but if it was a much better salary or friendlier hours I would consider it. They told me the name of the town and general nature of the work. I live rurally and there are 3 of this type of business in this town. I worked for one before (and would again), would like to work for another and would not work a single day for the third. The agency flatly refused to tell me the name of the company and I refused to disclose the name of the one I wouldn't work for, although they kept pressing me - I don't want to be known as difficult in my local area so asked that they don't call me again unless it's to reveal their client. Before I hung up I did thank them for letting me know of a local job opportunity and that I would apply directly to the two local firms I'm interested in. I have no intention of doing so and have ignored their calls since then. Cannot believe they expected me to give them all my details for a job that they won't reveal to me. Madness.

in IT jobs so far they always say the company name if they were to forward my CV

I was told only about 30-40% of jobs are publically advertised, but I was taught ways of searching for those other, non-advertised jobs, essentially by writing out to companies on spec. You don't need to pay anyone to find these jobs, and getting in touch with companies about specific fields of work you're interested in can lead to some interesting networking even in the first one you contact hasn't got anything you can apply for.

Having said that, the company I'm with now advertised publically and I got the job the conventional way.

If I need to look again, I won't just apply for advertised jobs.

I think some of you are misunderstanding how most of these agencies work. If you see a role advertised by an agency, don't email them saying here's my cv and I would like to apply for your unnamed role, email them and say hi I'm interested in applying, please call/email me to tell me more about it. Then they get back to you and tell you who the job is with. As others have said, they don't put the name on the advert because then you would just apply directly and they won't get any cash!

Of course you do get unscrupulous agencies as well who invent vacancies to get candidates registered with them, or more often the vacancy did exist once but was filled long ago. However it's am just part of the job hunting game.

My field might be different but you can generally figure out which co. it is for from the job spec. If I'm interested in a roll and I don't know which co. it is then I've asked and been told. An agent doesn't put it in the ad because you could go direct and cut out the middle man so to speak. If you have spoken to the agent then they have a record that you were interested in case they need to claim their cut.

Agencies really fall down when it comes to a technical role. DH always gives them a disposable phone number and email address because he'll be hounded for years about roles which are about as close to his skillset and level of experience as a supermarket meat counter job is to being a pastry chef. And it's always clear they're just wanting to meet referral targets.

He's just secured himself a new job but not via an agency.

I worked in recruitment for a short time. You have to reach targets weekly and these included: fake adverts, cold calls to managers and lying to get visits, dragging up cold clients and general lying twatfuckery. It's a money business that happens to have people as a commodity.

It's because an agency doesn't want you to apply direct or tell others where you are applying as the more people that know about the role the greater the competition. Adverts are kept vague to prevent other agencies securing an instruction for the position by working out where it is. A recruiter doesn't actually get paid for their work until a person is in situ and there is usually a rebate period incase that person doesn't stay, so it becomes almost essential to maximise the opportunity for the people being put forward by the recruiter by maintaining confidentiality.

It's because an agency doesn't want you to apply direct

^^ This

If the company can recruit someone directly then they don't have to pay agency fees so the agency doesn't want to give away who it is whose looking.

I am waiting to start a new job and I was able to approach the company directly since I was given a heads up by someone that they were looking for people. Since then I have received emails from agents about a job opportunity that I know from the description is the same job. However, since I made my approach independently before any agencies had been in touch the company won't have to pay recruiting fees.

A few years ago in a previous job I did once apply through an agent for a vaguely worded job advert. I heard nothing for weeks so assumed it was a fishing advert. In the meantime I heard about a company who were recruiting so I submitted my CV directly. Unfortunately it turned out to be the same one that I had responded to via the agent so I had to continue through the agent. (I still got the job)