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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think I should be paid

70 replies

Myrandomfamily · 16/08/2014 21:35

I work 4 hour shifts but these involve driving.

I don't get paid for the time I spend driving. So in a 4 hour shift I am only working for 3 and a half hours.

Aibu

OP posts:
ILovePud · 16/08/2014 21:59

YANBU, this may be in your contract but for what it's worth I think it's unfair and that you should be paid for the travel time within your shift, I am in my job. Some employers get away with offering the stingiest of conditions and in the current economic climate people may have no choice but to accept them but it doesn't make it right.

FreeLikeABird · 16/08/2014 22:00

Are you calls on your rota back to back? Or do they give you travel time?

CurlyBlueberry · 16/08/2014 22:00

Does that put you below the minimum wage? I.e. if you are required to be 'available' for 16 hours (because you need all that time to travel and complete your work) but only paid for 10, then does your total wage divided by 16 come under NMW?

Either way I do think YANBU, but if you are being paid a lot, then perhaps it could be argued that the travelling time is already accounted for by your high hourly wage. If you don't have a high hourly wage then I see your point.

Original poster
Myrandomfamily · 16/08/2014 22:02

We get travel time, although it's sometimes not enough, it's 5 minutes between people which is okay if they are in the same area but not if they're spread out. Then sometimes in rush hour or school drop off/pick up time you just get trapped for ages.

But the thing is in one shift you can have up to 10 people. So that's an hour unpaid even if they DO all take just 5 minutes.

High hourly wage Grin I wish!

OP posts:
slightlyglitterstained · 16/08/2014 22:03

Agree with ILovePud, it sounds unfair if it's an unavoidable part of the job - unless they boost your hourly rate to compensate (in the same way a taxi driver needs to charge more to compensate for the time spent driving back from a fare or waiting on rank!) If they don't do that, then it's crap.

Pollywallywinkles · 16/08/2014 22:04

I know exactly mean OP.

DD took on a second job as a home carer. Same sort of set up as you in that no allowance was made for the travelling time between clients. It could be up to a twenty minute drive between clients, although some were only 5 or so minutes. On one particular round she would be out for 5 1/2 hours but only get paid for 4. She did however get mileage between clients, although not to the first one or home from the last one.

Zero hours contract as well. Ghastly organisation to work for to boot.

FreeLikeABird · 16/08/2014 22:05

Unfortunately that is how home care works, could you not work in a residential or nursing home if you feel your losing money? At least you just drive there, do your shift and leave.

Original poster
Myrandomfamily · 16/08/2014 22:06

We get mileage but we work in twos so if the other care assistant drives you just get nothing at all. Also not from first or last.

It's rubbish.

OP posts:
Pollywallywinkles · 16/08/2014 22:06

Exactly what you mean!

WoodliceCollection · 16/08/2014 22:08

(I drive to field sites during working hours and this is counted as work time and paid as such, also it's in work vehicles so I don't have additional costs, though I bring my own wellies).

Original poster
Myrandomfamily · 16/08/2014 22:18

Ah I need your job woodlice

I'm working 6:30 until 23:30 tomorrow. Joy.

OP posts:
FishWithABicycle · 16/08/2014 22:19

You are absolutely right that you should be paid for these hours but this is unfortunately completely standard for the sector and no employer is going to pay more than they can get away with paying. It will only change if (A) government legislation is passed to say that any travel time undertaken during the working day (excluding any commute between the worker's home and first and last points of call during the day) must be counted as payable working hours. or (B) the entire workforce organises, unionises and refuses to work on these unfair terms.

Either way if you want things to change it is time to get political. However, what most people do (and what I suspect you will do) is keep your head down, suck it up, get experience and qualifications and get a better job leaving a vacancy for someone else to taken on this admittedly raw and unappetising deal.

Original poster
Myrandomfamily · 16/08/2014 22:25

You give the latter option as if it's easy Fish - it isn't.

Especially not after working sixteen hours.

OP posts:
GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 16/08/2014 22:45

I did this job for a while, would be out of the house for 14 hours and there would be no time on the rota for a tea or lunch break, no mileage, contact time 9 hours, min wage. After tax: £40 for a 14 hour working day.
I think it's appalling staff management and no wonder the care industry has such a high staff turnover.

Original poster
Myrandomfamily · 16/08/2014 22:56

It's rubbish Gilbert. It makes me feel like my times completely worthless. It is really as it works out at about £4 p/h

OP posts:
chubbyhez · 16/08/2014 22:58

It's a national disgrace we place so little value on people caring for the most vulnerable in our society.

BringMeSunshine2014 · 16/08/2014 23:12

It is crap. I was talking to someone about it once and they said it's because they can it's to stop employees taking the P between jobs, which you can sort of understand, but then the contact time should be better paid. It is a ridiculously underpaid sector :( My neighbour does this job too and she often does split shifts and her clients are half an hour away from where we live - I hate to think about how badly she ends up beig paid some days.

fluffymouse · 16/08/2014 23:19

There are care agencies that pay travel time and mileage between clients. Not many though as it works out to a high hourly cost.

I would suggest changing agency.

FriendlyLadybird · 16/08/2014 23:40

I used to co-run a company that employed people like this (it wasn't exactly care but errand-running and companionship). We paid people as well as we could but were stymied by the fact that there was a limit to what clients would pay, and they certainly wouldn't pay for travel time. Plus we had a few employees who would drive, some who cycled, and one who would only walk. She took a lot longer than the others to get from one client to another. How should we have calculated travel time?
We had to stop in the end anyway because we were working for nothing ourselves, and the company regularly made a loss.

cricketpitch · 17/08/2014 00:24

It is bad and I understand what you mean but most people doing that sort of job are in the same boat. It is the same with tutoring and you do an hour here and there and no-one pays for travel time. If you are self-employed, (as more people than ever are now), you don't get paid for travel, invoicing, cancellation, invoicing etc. Not fair but so far the laws of supply and demand mean people won't pay for it.

Original poster
Myrandomfamily · 17/08/2014 06:12

It isn't remotely the same as tutoring as
I see people in 15, 30 min slots so I can see around 30 people a day. With travel time between 30 people that adds up to a LOT of unpaid time.

OP posts:
TheLastThneed · 17/08/2014 07:38

It seems so unfair. I really feel for you.

LIZS · 17/08/2014 07:48

Most employees aren't paid for their travel time to and from place of work , but it would probably count as paid if they moved location during the working day. Unfortunately your contract stipulates otherwise. Does each client only get charged for the contact time or is there an element of travel included ?

MrsCampbellBlack · 17/08/2014 08:01

I think its incredibly unfair. yanbu

FishWithABicycle · 17/08/2014 08:39

myrandom I never said or implied it was easy - I just said that's what it would take to change it. The very fact that it would be so difficult is why I said I suspect you wouldn't.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, I know you are in a very shitty situation, but the employers can get away with treating you this badly because if you make a fuss they can easily get rid of you and replace you with someone who won't make a fuss. You can only make a fuss and keep your job if everyone else is doing the same and no-one is prepared to work on these conditions. This is massively unlikely. It is much easier to accept this grief now and strive towards getting a better job ASAP.