To be confused about who's right and who's wrong?

[MrsWinnibago]

We live in a flat above an elderly woman. We have two DC aged 6 and 10. We try to be quiet but can't afford underlay. The flat is housing association and when we moved in, this was all there was and we were almost homeless so had no choice.

I try my best to ensure the DC don't stomp about and that they don't run etc but it's hard!

The neighbour has just had a go at DH re the noise and said "I've only had ONE nice neighbour in 20 years!

Which I think is bloody rude. We are nice....we're polite, kind and helpful. She's 81 and perhaps the slightest noise is upsetting when she's in the house a lot...but really I don't know what else to do!

Shall I send her a card to apologise? DH explained that we're always reminding the DC to be quiet...we try our best...but it's hard in a tiny flat.

Part of me feels harassed by her and part of me feels she's right. :(

Is it 'stomping' type noise she is moaning about? Or does her complaint include music/TV/talking/shouting/crying or whatever?

If 'stomping' then you could make sure no shoes in the house, no running rule, get nice sift slippers etc.

If voice-based noise I think it's harder really if you think you're already not that noisy. You can't have everyone whispering all the time. Maybe be extra quiet before 9am and after 8pm?

OK, can I just stop you all there....giving her the benefit because of her age? Really?

"Oh God. That is off.
Put it down to her age though." - for example

There have been threads and posts deleted recently due to being "ageist" when posters have generalised (not always negatively) about people over the age of retirement.

So really the general concensous on MN is that someone in their 80's should not get any special treatment. Rude is rude.

And no, I wouldn't give her a card. I might say, I'm sorry you are irritated by the noise we make, we do try to be quite if I happened to bump into her, or she came to the door.

Is it likely she will put in an official complaint? I think speaking to the HA yourself is a good idea.

I lived upstairs from an elderly woman who would bang on the ceiling at any noise.
I gave the children the bedroom not above hers so they wouldn't disturb her, I kept their play area in the hall way so she wouldn't be disturbed in her living room.
I had a cousin come round and he and my DS ran around for a few minutes whilst I was on the phone. I had just grabbed them to tell them to stop when the woman's DD came up to complain.

She wasn't being horrible but her mum had obviously told her all about how awful and noisy we were.
I was able to show the DD around and tell her about the things we had done to keep he noise down. She also admitted that the boys had only been running around for a minute or two before they were stopped.

After our chat her mum calmed right down. I think it was the idea that we didn't care about her and that we didn't make any attempt to keep quiet that was upsetting her more than the actual noise (which really wasn't that bad).

Ironically her hard of hearing son moved in and instead of using adaptive equipment, would just turn his alarm on really, really loud to wake him at 5am. I could hear every single word.
They also had very loud adaptations done.

I didn't complain, just asked nicely if he could sort out the alarm and didn't mention the adaptations. They had to be done.

They did look a bit sheepish.

Sometimes its better to try and talk about this stuff to avoid misunderstandings and bitterness building up.

If that is possible. Sometimes it isn't.

Agree with MrsTerryPratchett - if it was just you, then I'd think you might have DCs who are noisier than you realise, as it's everyone, then it's her.

Unless you go in the top floor flat, you will hear noise from the people above you, unless they are out all the time (was the "one nice neighbour" someone who just used the flat as a place to sleep and was out all the time?).

Insist on being a 'no shoes' home if you don't already (can make a massive difference to noise levels from normal walking about), don't put a card through (as others have said, that implies she's in the right), if she complains again say "well, we're as quiet as we can be, anyone else will be noisier, I guess you'll have to ask to move to a top floor flat if you don't want noise from above, or you could pay for sound proofing."

I honestly would do a card. The noise from my upstairs neighbour hasn't decreased but my understanding of her and the effort she makes has totally taken all the anger and bitterness away.

It sounds like neither of you have a choice to live there so it's best to get on. I really don't think yabu OP btw, I know it's difficult.

Mary the one nice neighbour was a single, middle aged woman apparently who worked full time and was barely in!

I think the advice about calling the HA about advice will be a good plan. I will call them on Monday and ask about it and explain the neighbour can hear us walking about and that we want to find out what we can do to minimize this.

Thanks all. I do feel cross but her son was with her when she moaned and he looked very awkward DH said and was mouthing things to DH like "Sorry!" etc which makes me think she's generally a bit awkward.

Sounds like SIBU OP. If you can though I would get a rug, perhaps off freecycle if possible? Definitely speak to the HA.

She shouldn't have been rude, but I think that when people get to that age their world can become quite small, and things that aren't that big a deal can seem much bigger. If she's at home a lot, I can completely understand that noise from upstairs much of the time could be upsetting.

You really do need to do something about getting some underlay. Carpet straight on top of bare floors is going to create a lot of noise, and it don't think it's fair for you to let the problem continue indefinitely.

A decent underlay might make a huge difference. Even rugs might help?

What is the layout of the flats. Is it possible to have the kids play area over a room that she doesn't use?

I dont know. Im a bit of a sucker for little old ladies. I think that no matter how bat shit crazy you should try to be kind and patient. I think a card is a great idea, maybe say you will take the children to get some slippers and you hate to think you have disturbed her and try to strike up a friendship? I usrd to live next door to the meanest grumpiest old man ever but I killed him with kindness;asked if he would like any thing from the shops, asked about his day, commented on garden etc.
One day he started smiling and he turned out to be hilarious and just a but lonely.

get some cardboard and stuff it under the carpets if she still complains she is hearing things!

go on freegle and beg for rugs or underlay what area are you ive some in my loft!

she should be glad my children are not the ones above her they are currently jumping off toy boxes and tables also snuggling into the bean bag (which is quite loud too)

I think you should just get on with your lives as best you can. I think you need to find a happy medium between not being unduly noisy, but not making yours and the children's lives miserable by 'keeping them quiet' all the time. They are flats - noise travels. It's life.

She has only had one 'nice' neighbour in 20 years - essentially someone who was never home! That really tells you who is at fault here. Your children deserve a normal life, doing normal stuff without being told off all the time for being 'noisy' when they are, in fact, just being 'people living in their home'.

Also, her own DS was mouthing 'sorry' etc - it really does show the issue is hers, not yours.

Are you on any waiting lists for a house rather than a flat?

Please - don't make your lives stressful trying to keep her happy, because you wont & you will be miserable in the process.

Oh no OP!Don't pander to her. She has already admitted she had complaints/issues with all but one previous neighbour over 20 years.

Don't make your DC scared to move about freely in their own home that would be awful.

Ignore her.

I've been in tears about noise from an upstairs flat. This was after several months, when I was pregnant and working full time inc some weekends, of the neighbours up there turning their washing machine on at midnight (so spin cycle 1-2am), having parties until all hours every weekend and some weeknights with loud music, druggie friends running up and down stairs to them, and eventually a visit from the police to ask me if I'd heard anything because the woman of the house had been beaten up by her partner (I'd not heard anything unusual, but I have no doubt he did it because he was an utter twat and was constantly screaming at her and bringing the druggie friends in when she appeared not to want it). I don't think your woman has a leg to stand on really, unless your kids are up til midnight or screaming all the time, in which case she should be phoning social services rather than just bitching in the close.

It sounds like SIBU.

But I'm not clear exactly what she's complaining about.

Do the children play football in the house? Loud music? Scream a lot? That's Unreasonable.

But if its normal household things eg walking around, laughing, she is U. Its not reasonable to expect your family to tiptoe round. Some noise is the nature of living in flats.

I used to live in a downstairs flat. The noise was very intrusive at times, and they were only adults upstairs. Children, with the best will in the world don't seem to be able to tread softly, so I have complete sympathy for your downstairs neighbour.

If the floor isn't adequately covered it must be tortuous for her.

I agree that you need to talk to the housing association.