Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think the NHS can't charge for drunk treatment without charging for other self inflicted

132 replies

suziepra · 12/08/2014 11:33

There is huge support for charging drunk people for a and e. I think this is being launched in Ireland.

I'm tee total but I don't agree with this as it is unfair just to pick on people that drink. Stats have been showing that young people drink less than ever these days.

Why should someone that has chosen to play a contact sport like rugby get free treatment if the drunks have to pay? What about someone who has chosen to live on junk for decades that has obesity treatment?

OP posts:
GailLondon · 12/08/2014 11:35

Yes, it's a slippery slope. Why just drinkers? Will they charge smokers for smoking related health problems?

alwaysdoinglaundry · 12/08/2014 11:40

Getting incapacitated is a 100% predictable result of drinking to excess. Getting obese is a 100% predictable result of eating too much and not exercising, that is why there is support for these conditions being chargeable.

Being injured in a rugby/skiing/whatever accident is just that - an accident - it won't happen to everyone who does the sport. I think that is the difference.

LadyLuck10 · 12/08/2014 11:42

I think yabu, there should be consequences for getting yourself into a situation which you chose to get into.

Salmotrutta · 12/08/2014 11:46

Smokers already contribute very heavily in taxes on each pack of cigs.

They pay £10 billion but only cost about £3 billion.

There is also tax on alcohol too of course.

That aside, a large number of diseases are contributes to by lifestyle choices (e.g. fatty diets, high cholesterol and heart disease) so are people who have heart attacks going to be charged if they contributed to their high cholesterol with bad dietary choices?

x2boys · 12/08/2014 11:47

Lots of things are happening right now in the NHS that I thought would never happen so this wouldn't surprise me but if treatment is supposed to be free on the point of contact I,m not sure how this could be enforced .

sashh · 12/08/2014 11:48

How can you tell it is self inflicted?

If it is someone falling down and breaking a bone would they have done that if they were sober?

Maybe alcohol poisoning could be argued as self inflicted but even then someone might have been mickey finned.

What about the results of pregnancy? Pregnancy could be argued to be self inflicted should we start charging for stitching up after giving birth?

Or what about todlers who swallow things? Poke things up their nose?

Salmotrutta · 12/08/2014 11:52

There are quite a few cancers that are linked to obesity, diet etc.

Would you charge those people Ladyluck?

x2boys · 12/08/2014 11:58

If it was drunk people getting in a fight and going to a and e yes I can see why some people might think they should be charged but where do you draw the line ,what if somebody went for a quiet family night out had a few glasses of wine and suffered a heart attack and taken to a and e would they still be charged?

rpitchfo · 12/08/2014 12:03

If the NHS changes from being free at the point of access that's it. The game is up.

HeySoulSister · 12/08/2014 12:05

Sport injuries should be chargeable??

Yes yes!! Let's all sit on our sofas and vegetate watching other people live life!

WorraLiberty · 12/08/2014 12:06

I just don't see how they can enforce it.

I see drunks/alcoholics in town who can't afford to clothe and feed themselves...they're forever begging in the streets.

How would they pay for treatment?

wigglesrock · 12/08/2014 12:07

It was mentioned in NI and the Health Minister thought it sounded like a good idea but considered he's as thick as champ to begin with, I don't think the idea has legs at all.

MeerkatTargaryen · 12/08/2014 12:08

As someone who has worked in a&e on a Friday and sat night, on the face of it YABU. It's full of patients with alcohol related injuries as well as people who just need to sleep it off. They demand a lot of attention taking you away from people who really need the care.

However, on the other side of the coin it will detract people from going to a&e when they need to for fear of being charged. alcohol affects blood clotting so drunk people will bleed more. A gash on the head can be very serious when alcohol is involved.

Alas I think it needs to carry on as it is.

StackladysMorphicResonator · 12/08/2014 12:10

There are better ways of recouping costs - increase the tax on cigarettes and alcohol, minimum pricing, taxes on junk food. We certainly shouldn't be charging for NHS care (except foreigners, obviously).

Sirzy · 12/08/2014 12:12

Yanbu, alcoholism is an illness. People don't choose to become alcoholics.

Nobody picks to become obese. Often this is such a complex thing - often linked to trauma/illness etc. I became obese as a result of a sporting injury I obtained does that mean I would be excempt from having to pay because it was via an injury that was out of my control? (I am no longer obese but was until recently)

It's way to complex an area for people to start trying to make judgement calls on who pays and who doesn't

MrsCumbersnatch · 12/08/2014 12:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kslatts · 12/08/2014 12:16

Why should someone that has chosen to play a contact sport like rugby get free treatment if the drunks have to pay?

Being injured during sport is completely different, the health benefits of taking part in sport far outweigh the small risk of being injured.

alwaysdoinglaundry · 12/08/2014 12:16

I,m not sure how this could be enforced .

Fairly straightforward, before having treatment that is a result of alcohol or obesity you sign consent for the cost to be taken from your salary/benefits at source. Could be done over time like student loans.

Thurlow · 12/08/2014 12:17

Definitely, yes.

Morally it is a slippery slope leaving someone to take a decision between an addicted alcoholic and a binge-drunk idiot. Someone might present like a binge-drunk idiot but actually have a serious amount going on in their life and so they are drinking like an alcoholic.

And it is a fine line to what else can be considered a self-inflicted injury. A lot of people would argue that someone who regularly attends A&E with sports-related injuries should be charged. And all those broken legs from skiing holidays. And what about people who crash their car because they were driving stupidly or they hadn't maintained their car properly?

I can see why people are saying these things but for me, universal healthcare means you have to offer it to everyone, regardless of how their injury or illness was caused. Otherwise there is really no point to it.

mommy2ash · 12/08/2014 12:18

I would support such a move. I live in Ireland. you walk into any a&e at the weekend and it is packed with drunk people. as a teenager my elderly grandad had taken a fall she was very frail and when we took him to the hospital they wanted us to take him home again after he was checked out as they didn't have a bed for him but yet found a bed for the drunk guy in his 20's vomiting on himself. we didn't know what to do my grandad couldn't move. he was a very large man over six foot and very heavy we couldn't possibly safely take him home. so he could at least get a bed on a corridor for the night we had to walk away and leave him with my dad telling the doctor if he was well enough to be discharged let him get out of the bed and into a taxi

I think if people had to pay for the consequences of their drunken weekend they would be less likely to repeat it and there would be more beds available for those who really need him

funkybuddah · 12/08/2014 12:18

There are too many grey areas with charging like this.

I had to have my thumb stiched up as I slipped on a wet floor and cut my thumb wide open.

More back story to this is that it was new years eve i was very very drunk.

However, how could they prove that I wouldnt have slipped on the wet floor and cut my thumb on the broken glass if I was sober? (it wasnt my glass that had spilt and broken on the floor)
I was wearing heels, maybe people who fall off thir heels should also be charged.

Car accident at higher speed, your own fault for driving x tonnes of metal at high speed.

Totally impractical

WooWooOwl · 12/08/2014 12:22

I think it would be fair to charge people who were obviously drunk and behaving badly in A&E, but I don't think it would be fair to charge people otherwise.

I have a friend who broke her leg while drunk once, she slipped while in a nightclub and ended up needing an operation. But she is a higher rate tax payer, has spent years working for the NHS, and there is actually nothing wrong with going out and having a few drinks, so why penalise people for it.

Original poster
suziepra · 12/08/2014 12:25

Why is it game over if people are charged? We pay billions to the NHS and have the 19th best health service in the world. France have the best and people that can afford to pay contribute to the costs directly. People rarely appreciate anything given for free.

OP posts:
CasperGutman · 12/08/2014 12:26

This will give rise to so many edge cases as to be unworkable. Drinking a particular amount may increase the probability that you will need treatment, but sober people can fall over, and drunk people can get home safely.

If I wake up after a drunk night out with an unexplained injury, is that chargeable? It may be the result of my drinking, or I may have been assaulted. If I've been assaulted, did that only happen because I was drunk? Maybe I will just make up a story about how it happened....

If I fall down and injure myself after drinking one pint, is that self-inflicted? What about 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 pints? If I'm a 15-stone 6-foot bloke, am I "allowed" to drink more than a smaller person?

unweavedrainbow · 12/08/2014 12:27

What about self injury and suicide attempts? Definitely cost the NHS money, definitely self inflicted. Maybe they should be charged or does mental illness make that not count?