To be shocked at how many people think having no contact with family is normal?

[dogscatsandbabies]

I'm a lurker. Can't help it, I find AIBU gets me through many a night feed. I'm always totally shocked at how blasé some posters can be when giving advice "she sounds unbearable to me, I'd go NC" and similar phrases.

Really? Just like that you'd advise someone you don't know to break all ties with a relative over a situation you've only heard one side of, creating a family situation that can become unbearable for husbands / wives / siblings who are very literally stuck in the middle?

I know there are some situations when decisions are taken not to see family anymore for various good reasons but I'd seriously hope these were carefully considered and thought through in time given the wider impact it can have. NC just seems so normal to so many. Is it just me that thinks (safety of children etc aside) most problems are at least worth working on?

[TheFirmament]

God yes Looking and Adam, totally, totally, NC is NOT about punishing the other person, sulking, or withdrawing to make a point.

In fact, one of the things that makes it extra hard for me to do it is that my mum will spin it that way. She will, as she does with everything, take is as a form of engagement and she will go beserk.

I just want to not have to deal with her endless hurting, bullshit and the guilt I feel when I see her. That is all.

The first time I was pregnant, I just wished my mum lived on a different planet because of the neediness and obnoxiousness I knew was going to rain down on me WRT having a baby. That's all I wished - just that she could be millions of miles away. Not to hurt her. if I could do without hurting her, it would have already happened.

[AdamLambsbreath]

for Firmament.

Your mum sounds horrendous. And spookily familiar.

'Being told I'm just like her' - in some ways the worst thing they do. Because you spend the rest of your life examining yourself for signs that you might secretly be like them, or turn into them, because there's some bit of mental muck that you forgot to get rid of.

Brrrr.

[BornFreeButinChains]

'Being told I'm just like her' - in some ways the worst thing they do. Because you spend the rest of your life examining yourself for signs that you might secretly be like them, or turn into them, because there's some bit of mental muck that you forgot to get rid of


YY.

[BornFreeButinChains]

As you can tell, it's like being poked in a very raw place!

Yes.

[MommyBird]

I've been NC with my MIL for almost a year now.

From my experience, there is only so much you can tolerate because 'its my mum' so much stuff was brushed under the carpet, she was getting away with doing and saying anything she wanted and she knew she could because she was never confronted...when she was she managed to turn it all back onto us and somehow make it all our fault.

It was a complete headfuck and emotionaly draining.

The last straw was how she acted when i was in labour with DD2 and how she was afterwards.
She had no boundries and no respect, she would deny saying thing, lie and manipulate.

She doesn't see 'her' side of the family because of how they act..i see now that it's all her.

You can't talk or reason with toxic people, nothing is their fault and they're allways the victim.

It wasn't an easy choice, I put up with it for 4 years, I even had councilling. I told DH that i didn't want to see her anymore, he could see her asmuch as he wanted but I couldn't do it anymore.
He decided he didn't want to see either.

If you speak to her though, she will say she has no idea what she's done wrong and she is heartbroken she is missing out on the kids lives.
When in reality, she has spread lies and has never been bothered about or DDs, picks and drops them whenever she feels like and just can't bothered with them.

OP you're lucky you don't have toxic people in your life!

[noddyholder]

This is not about 'being in a huff' as so many think. That minimises it and then some It is about being constantly attacked by the very people who should love you unconditionally sometimes in teh most clever and subtle ways

[TheFirmament]

Thank you adam, and for you too.

" 'But it's your mum!' " Oh yes. I've had "but he's your dad" for years, and now "but she's your mum". And this is exactly one of the pressures that make it so hard. How can you be such a bitch, eh!!?

When my dad finally landed up in court for his crimes, and my siblings and I had to testify, I was asked why we were being "so vindictive" to a frail old man. By a friend. Thanks for that.

I also totally agree about having children. That was really what started me on the road away from my mum. I looked at my newborns and loved them for who there were, and realised neither of them was in any way a mini-me. For my mum, that was the greatest thing about having me, her firstborn - I was just a smaller version of her - and she's always delighted in telling me this. My babies showed me that's not what it's about at all!

And I just can't imagine saying awful things to my child about her body to make her feel like shit. I can't imagine telling my child I'm not proud of his achievements because they are nothing to do with me. And all the other hurtful crap. How could she?

[NacMacFeeglie]

I had a problem with my girls a few weeks back. My elder was accused of doing something and my younger confirmed it. Only to find out two days later my younger had lied because she was worried her friends would fall out with her if she told the truth.

I sat them down and explained to younger about lying. Then I went on to explain that family is important. Families should be loyal to each other and support each other.

Then I went and had a cup of tea and thought if they knew the truth about my family they would call me a liar. Thank god I can try to bring them up and show them what a loving supportive family can be like.

For a lot of people going nc is incredibly hard. We all were children once that just wanted a normal family. Some of us were lucky enough to get it. The rest of us live our lives without the security and warmth of a happy family. Some of us are fine with that. Some of us will always suffer with self esteem issues and generally wondering why it couldn't be that way.

All of us that choose to do it will be doing it to protect ourselves from a far worse hurt. The hurt of having a family that cause you pain.

I don't think people are too quick to suggest nc. I think people are quick to say that can be an option. That if that's what's needed then it's okay.

[RonaldMcDonald]

I have NC with my father. I wish my mother had been able to do this when we were children. This is a reasoned decision.

I am divorced and my children see their father everyday. He is a good man and a great father
They all adore each other.

[SlowRedCar]

I think it's more a mumsnet thing. In real life I know very few people who are actually nc

maddy68, it might (or might not) surprise you to know that many people don’t exactly publish this kind of information. I have been NC with my parents for over 20 years, but it’s not something I brag about or disclose willy nilly to all around me. It's fairly sensitive stuff for me, and I am guarded in who I share it with. In normal conversation I talk about my parents, in a normal way, I have never done the "paint them black" thing, except with a tiny group of very close friends. Many people just assume I have normal (if somewhat limited due to geography) contact with them. It’s not that I lie about being NC, more that I just adopt a kind of “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy with everyone except very close friends.

I worked fairly closely with someone for 11 years and after a trip home they casually asked how my parents were, to which I answered, “fine I assume, but I didn’t see them on my trip home, and haven’t seen them for over 20 years as I went no-contact with them years ago as they were abusive”. I only replied that way because I was asked so directly. If the question had been more along the lines of “how as everything with your family back home?” I would have answered as I usually do with “fine thanks, it was great seeing them all”.

I think what I am trying to say in a roundabout way is, don’t just assume that you don’t know people in real life who are NC with their parents. As the years go by, of course more and more people in an ever widening circle of friends, family, colleagues, neighbours and casual acquaintances know I am NC with my parents, but it has taken in excess of 20 years for this “circle who do know” to be as wide as it now is, and only part of that circle is due to my actually telling them. I would guess that a good two thirds know because they have been told “via via”. And, they only knew 5 or 8 or 10 or 15 years after the NC was established.

Things aint always how they appear to be on the surface.

[AdamLambsbreath]

I think that what's emerging from the stories here is a pattern. There are certain attitudes and actions which are common to most abusive behaviour.

For instance, I can read gobby's post about her dad, and Firmament's about her mum, and they are virtually identical patterms of behaviour to my own parents'.

For those who have experienced it, when you see certain incidents outlined in a post, you know them to be 'red flags'.

If you haven't experienced them, they don't mean the same thing. Therefore you may read the post and think, 'What! People are suggesting that the OP's mum/dad/husband is being abusive, when all they've said is that they did X and X, or said X.' But that's not all they've said. It's about what those things are symptoms of: a lack of boundaries, the treatment of a child as an extension of a parent, a violent attitude towards women, etc. These indicate that the person you are dealing with is not a reasonable person, not someone OK at heart who's been a bit crass or had a bad day.

I suspect that this may be why those with no experience of abuse read certain threads as 'over-reactions'.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Whoever described it as sulking at the beginning of the thread is minimising the toxic relatives abusive and awful behaviour. That's an insult, if you read some of the harrowing abuse and treatment suffered by some on here!

[TheFirmament]

Absolutely redcar! And one of the reasons I don't tend to broadcast it is because if someone does ask outright, and I say "actually I am estranged from my dad and haven't seen him for 20 years", then I'm likely to get the response "But he's your dad!" Which makes me feel horrendous.

I don't actually blame people for saying that, of course it's good that there are people who have nice parents they are close to, and can't contemplate the idea of cutting off a family member.

[MommyBird]

My MIL used the 'can't we just start again?'

No. Because there is no closure. She will have got away with everything with no apology and will continue doing everything she has done.
She thinks that the way she has behaved is fine and isn't sorry for ANY of it.

For an example, a few weeks after i'd given birth she told people I have an eating disorder and that's why I was so thin!
When I asked her about it and had told her that really upset me..she said that yes, she had told people that because i'm so thin.

She thinks that ok, thats an ok thing to do and didn't even say sorry, she tried to justify saying it.

If you offend someone, normal people say sorry.
That's what you're dealing with.

[PetulaGordino]

i can remember as a child some of my friends "didn't see" x uncle and aunt, y grandparent. it wasn't something that was talked about often but it did happen. of course in those days there were fewer lines of communication if you didn't see people in person (letter or landline phone)

mumsnet is brilliant at helping people to see that although they might not be ready for complete no contact, it is a valid option and it's not a sign of failure on their part that the relationship isn't going to improve

[BornFreeButinChains]

I had to go no contact with my sister, it was very very painful, being in contact with her and very depressing and painful going NC with her.

I have learned the hard way its the only way and her behaviour is how some of you are describing your parents.

If someone told me I was in a huff with her I think I would punch them.

[drudgetrudy]

I think there are two sides to this-for some people from abusive backgrounds NC is the only way forward for self-preservation.
However I agree with OP that sometimes it is trotted out on here as standard advice if someone is just a bit of a PITA. or makes too many demands.
Is there never a middle way like negotiating and setting boundaries. (I do know some people don't respond well to this but perseverance can do the trick).
There is one particular poster on relationships who seems well-respected but terrifies me-she makes assumptions-recommends NC in all cases whilst not knowing the people involved etc etc -she thinks nearly everyone is a complete narcissit even if they are just getting on someones nerves or have made them very upset over one incident.
She doesn't seem to think anyone is capable of change.

Having said that some people are complete narcissists and abusers and I have every sympathy for their family members. NC can be best for them.
A big responsibilt to advise people on here though-particularly if they are stressed and venting-better to direct them to RL help and counselling.

[BornFreeButinChains]

I'm likely to get the response "But he's your dad!"

I was once told,...." We all want to support our parents when they get elderly and do the best we can for them* For people like this - its utterly shocking to think someone has cut out their parents or PILS and its YOU they think are the shocking one.

[AdamLambsbreath]

Firmament, you're seriously spooking me a bit

I was the firstborn, I was 'mini-me'.

My mother named me two names that mean 'helper and protector' in the original language. And that's just what I ended up doing. Being a carer to a grown woman who told me completely inappropriate things and called me 'thoughtless' when I didn't toe the line, and 'over-sensitive' when I was upset by her.

Goodness me, MN should start charging by the post for catharsis

[AdamLambsbreath]

drudge, to be fair, I know what you mean re certain posters being very hardline. I've been on the end of that and it feels like you're being bollocked and told to man up and go NC. It's not always helpful.

It's only the one or two that I know of, though.

Setting boundaries works with people who respect boundaries. If they don't, it's just banging your head against a wall.

[Lamu]

You spend the rest of your life examining yourself for signs that you might secretly be like them, or turn into them, because there's some bit of mental muck that you forgot to get rid of.

If you're spending a lot of time examining your actions it's a surefire way to avoid repeating the behaviours with your own children. That's what I tell myself anyway.

I when NC 8 months ago. It's not a decision I took lightly but ultimately it was the right thing to do for me and my family.

[TheFirmament]

Oh Adam! I too am "over-sensitive" if I have a problem with anything she's done or said. I want to give you a hug.

One thing recently twisted a knife in my heart, I can't say what as it is very specific and would out me. I couldn't tell my mum how much it hurt as she would call me over-sensitive, and also not get that it was the motivation and hurtfulness behind it that hurt, not the thing itself which she would claim was just minor.

So I texted my sister (who is already NC) about it. She texted back (as a joke) "Oh you are sooooo oversensitive!" :) It's just what my mum always says the minute you question her. Oh and if you're not all smiles and hugs, you are "hostile".

But as you've said, isn't it weird how these same behaviours come out?

[Mrsjayy]

Not a clue what n c means. Anyway I do think some posters tell others to stay away from mil as she is obviously toxic are just projecting and that isnt helpful. But I have read some threads where it is probably better if there is distance in the relationship.

[AdamLambsbreath]

Yes Lamu, they say that it's awareness that's key. As long as you understand your history and are aware of your own behaviour, you're protected against repeating it.

Still freaks me out when I'm fragile, though .