To be shocked at how many people think having no contact with family is normal?

[dogscatsandbabies]

I'm a lurker. Can't help it, I find AIBU gets me through many a night feed. I'm always totally shocked at how blasé some posters can be when giving advice "she sounds unbearable to me, I'd go NC" and similar phrases.

Really? Just like that you'd advise someone you don't know to break all ties with a relative over a situation you've only heard one side of, creating a family situation that can become unbearable for husbands / wives / siblings who are very literally stuck in the middle?

I know there are some situations when decisions are taken not to see family anymore for various good reasons but I'd seriously hope these were carefully considered and thought through in time given the wider impact it can have. NC just seems so normal to so many. Is it just me that thinks (safety of children etc aside) most problems are at least worth working on?

[Delphiniumsblue]

I am so what biased because the only cases I know personally are lovely people with very difficult DILs. There are cases where you need to do it- but equally there are cases that are unnecessary.

[Delphiniumsblue]

You need both sides to give advice.

[PetulaGordino]

no one ever has both sides, even in RL that is rare

[TheFirmament]

Delphinium, I realise it's possible for ther DIL to be at fault, but unless you have seen precisely how they treat their DILs at all times, I would hesitate.

My mum has lots of friends and is a "lovely person" as far as they are concerned.

[Lamu]

Delphinium, you never know what happens behind closed doors. Somebody can outwardly be an upstanding member of the community whilst doing the most horrific things in the privacy of their own home.

[AdamLambsbreath]

'hostile' - ha! Yes, bingo again.

You were right not to tell your mum. We keep thinking that we can make them understand, but we can't. I tend to think of my mum as having a few pieces missing. She's just not capable of recognising how awful her behaviour is. It's driven by needs that are deeply unhealthy and more important than anything else.

It's good you've got your sister to talk to. I don't know where I'd be without my brother sometimes. We support each other, and we've developed a fantastic black sense of humour. It's good to laugh about ludicrous behaviour.

[AdamLambsbreath]

mrsjayy, NC means 'no contact'.

[SaucyJack]

YABU, and completely missing the point.

If the no-contactee was the sort of rational, caring person who you could sit down with and work through issues together, then you wouldn't be seeking to go NC in the first place.

Some people are just so narcissistic, self-righteous or plain ol' mean that the only sane way to deal with them is by refusing to deal with them. You cannot change other people's behaviour; you can only change how you respond to it.

[gobbynorthernbird]

I think the posters who jump straight to NC are few and far between. Mostly because those of us who have suffered abuse and have gone NC have done so because we got to that stage because we 'saw the light' and recognised what normal relationships are. And that these relationships have their ups and downs. In my own case, both my mum and MIL/FIL are perfectly capable of doing my tits in. There are times when I may feel that they're being a bit selfish or obtuse or demanding, and I'm sure they feel the same way about me! But they never make me feel like they are deliberately hurting me, or that they will never put me/my family/our feelings first. There is always room for compromise. In my personal experience, I only have one friend who is NC with a parent, and when we have talked it is like I'm having a chat with myself. Her experiences are pretty much the exact same as mine.

To pp who have been damaged in the same way I have, and have had the same issues with self esteem, etc, I hope that taking control and making the NC decision has helped you in the same way as it has me.

[SlowRedCar]

So I have another question and I GENUINELY don't mean this to be inflammatory, I'm just interested. Of those of you who have chosen NC with a relative or parent have your siblings / aunts / uncles done the same? Is this person toxic to all family and friends or do they single you out?

dogscatsandbabies, No clear cut or short answer to this regards my parents. Both of my parents have mental health issues, both are (functioning) alcoholics, both are abusive. Mother’s MH issues are deeper rooted and harder to “cure” than fathers, and also harder to deal with. Father also accepts he has mental health issues and does some thinsg to try to limit them. My mother mostly refuses to treat her MH issues or even accept she has any. She is also far more toxic than my father. Father, while having issues of his own, is more of an enabler than an abuser. Mother is definitely an abuser, and definitely very toxic.

I have other siblings and they …..oh this is sooooo hard to explain without turning it into a novel.

My siblings have periods of contact with my parents, then periods of no contact, these periods can be up to 5 years or more. Every parent/sibling relationship is volatile and unstable, no single one of my sibling have stable (or remotely healthy) contact with my parents. But as the years go on, it’s becoming increasingly obvious that some of my siblings are developing the same problems/lifestyle as my parents. All of my siblings have alcohol problems. One sister has been diagnosed with the same personality disorder as my (our) mother. One brother has the same MH diagnosis as my father.

My siblings now have grown up children themselves and most of those relationships are dysfunctional or non-existant too. Many of my nieces and nephews are no contact with their parents (my brothers and sisters), as well as with my parents (their grandparents). Those nephews and nieces who do still have contact with my siblings (their parents) I fear will either be NC a decade from now, or I fear even more, will have followed the same vicious cycle of their parents and grand parents and turned to the bottle or be camping with their own personality disorders and the poisonous coping mechanisms often employed by those with undiagnosed PDs.

Both of my parents have brother and sisters (my aunts and uncles) and those relationships broke down many many decades ago. When I was a small child my mum and dad had some contact with their brothers and sisters, but as they became increasingly difficult to deal with, those brother/sister relationships broke down and petered out and have been non existent for around 20-30 years now.

My parents are however “in your face” idiots. It’s obvious pretty quickly to most people that they are numpties, best to be avoided. They have no close friends or close family ties at all. At best they have sporadic volatile on and off relationships with my siblings and with others. Most people who know a bit of my family history totally support and understand my being NC with parents.

On the other hand my husband has THE worst kind of mother, who makes mine look like Mama Walton. My husband’s mother was abusive in the extreme, but could put on the best façade possible to the rest of the world. A secret abuser if you will. So while people who know me, and know my family, know and support my NC stance 100%, my husband does not have that luxury as most people think his mum is a nice person, and he must be a cruel bastard to go NC with them. His mother only abused him, and never ever physically, but to a terrible degree emotionally and verbally. He does have a sister but she was the golden child and he was the scape goat. While my parents abuse was quite blatant and obvious (obvious neglect, obvious parents had alcohol issues, obvious parents had bad MH issues, obvious that my parents had zero healthy relationships with any single person in their lives)… my husband’s mothers abuse was far more subtle and 100% behind closed doors and totally invisible to the world. My husband’s mother has a perfectly ok relationship with her siblings. She is at worst “slightly bossy” or “a bit controlling” with his other aunts and uncles and cousins, and is known (quite affectionately) in the family as the alpha-female-bossy-but-nice-enough-aunty-who-must be-obeyed. It was only with her own son that that bossy became utterly controlling and abusive.

I would take the “in your face” abuse/neglect I received at the hands of my family any day, as opposed to the “secret” abuse my husband went through. I was left to rear myself from a very young age. At 10 years old I did more parenting of my alcoholic parents than they did of me. It taught me to be independent and strong and to fend for myself. My husband was never even remotely neglected, he was however smothered and controlled and enmeshed and made to feel an utter failure by a controlling, toxic and abusive mother.

So two stories of NC with abusive parents and two completely different takes on how the abusive parents portray themselves to the world at large.

Sorry this was so long, but it’s impossible (for me) to condense.

[Mrsjayy]

Ah of course it does thanks

[AdamLambsbreath]

Nae worries

[PetulaGordino]

i have a relative who has an extremely difficult mother. relative works really hard on their relationship, but it makes her miserable, because fundamentally she is a kind, thoughtful person with reasonable and rational reactions to things. and being fairly reasonable and rational and optimistic she expects her mother to also react in a reasonable and rational way. but of course she doesn't, so time and time again my relative is disappointed and feels rejected and as though she has failed again because she hasn't been able to please her mother

i think that people who are horrified by the idea of someone cutting off contact with such a close relation also assume that given the right behaviour or strategy on the part of my relative, she will be able to "get through" to the reasonable and rational response from her mother. but it won't ever happen, because none of the strategies will ever work, they won't be allowed to - that's the point. the relative's mother doesn't want a relationship based on mutual respect and love for each other, where differences are accepted and with compromises on both sides where there are disagreements. she wants my relative in the place she has designated for her, which is one where her needs are suppressed in favour of her mother's needs

i am lucky enough not to have ever needed to cut off contact with someone close to me, so i'm not projecting as some assume

[drudgetrudy]

There is a thread at the moment by someone whose DM and DH have a poor relationship. DH is refusing to attend DMs 70th birthday party.
DM does not sound abusive but she is a bit demanding and dependent on her DD
Poster only sees her about 6-8 times a year as they live at a distance.
Poster doesn't seem to want to go no contact with her Mum.
I admit it is only a few replies but some people are telling her that her DH is her family now and the contact is too much, he sounds a bit of an awkward bastard too

Again every sympathy to those with genuinely awful families I am sure that you didn't decide onNC lightly

[HauntedNoddyCar]

You cannot set boundaries and discuss stuff with these people because they cannot accept any fault, blame or responsibility.
You're upset? You are too sensitive
They're upset? You did it on purpose to hurt them.
There is no middle way.

My own df and I have a chequered history but we talk and resolve things and he shows me he is proud of me and reacts positively when I do things for him. We can row and resolve. DH has never seen this bond. Never been the child. DH can be less guarded with my df than his own.

[TheFirmament]

My siblings have done the same, though one has now restarted sporadic contact with my mum. (The one who is also a narcissist - IMHO)

My mum has upset a lot of people in her extended family and she also often has fallouts with neighbours, for example. She is intrusive, inappropriate and needy and they don't like it, but when they object she is furious and blames them for having "something wrong with them" (her catch-all for people who call her out on her behaviour).

However she does have a husband, my stepdad who is quite nice if a bit of a reactionary old soul, and loads of friends. She seems to be able to switch on the charm for these relationships and very much plays the victim for them, WRT what her terrible children have done to her.

[noddyholder]

My mother is NC with all of us bar one. We don't go NC with her as such she cuts us from our life if we disagree with her as she does anyone. SO I kept my mouth shut for years and still saw her but as soon as I spoke up and disagreed with something she said she never spoke to me again. the general consensus among friends and family was what took you so long?

[noddyholder]

The firmament I could have written that. My mum has no contact with her siblings either or other family members as if they challenged her about us (they all support us) she would not be able to take it. has also fallen out with every neighbour she has ever had!

[RonaldMcDonald]

Regarding the wider family
My father is NC with all of his siblings and the majority of people who have come into contact with him over the years
He is a delight

[gobbynorthernbird]

Firm, my dad has a history of falling out with people. Neighbours, colleagues (before he retired), friends, anyone who he has ever paid to do any work on his house or garden. If you were to listen to him, he's hard done by, but I can now see that the common factor is him.

[AgesOfAquarius]

I sometimes wonder about going NC with my father but he lives just down the road and so it's pretty much impossible. He dotes upon the grandchildren and makes it very clear that I am tolerated because without me he wouldn't see them. He never wanted to have children and has often said that it would be much better if you could have grandchildren without having to have children. I am annoyed that I still feel the need to have his approval because it is never forthcoming.
It's been made abundantly clear that I have been a disappointment to him all of my life and will continue to be. I don't especially like him that much and I am sure that the feeling is mutual.

[Legionofboom]

I very much doubt that many people go NC just because a family member was a total twat once. Going fully NC is painful and very, very different from not speaking for a few days while one of you sulks.

I suspect some of the threads where people suggest going NC are documenting a long history of problems. Certainly I would be extremely surprised to hear anyone who is NC with a family member throwing the advice for others to do the same around without careful consideration.

As someone who is NC with my family I find it almost laughable to hear people say 'most problems can be sorted out if you are all willing to compromise'. You have NO fucking idea.

[SlowRedCar]

Absolutely redcar! And one of the reasons I don't tend to broadcast it is because if someone does ask outright, and I say "actually I am estranged from my dad and haven't seen him for 20 years", then I'm likely to get the response "But he's your dad!" Which makes me feel horrendous.

I don't actually blame people for saying that, of course it's good that there are people who have nice parents they are close to, and can't contemplate the idea of cutting off a family member.

I could write 20 pages on this TheFirmament, and still only be half way through. A few years back I got the “but she’s your mother, how can you in good conscience ignore her, how can you live with yourself” speech from a good friends mother who was visiting at the same time I was. The look of disgust (at me) on her face was a picture, and it was actually the look of utter disgust she gave me, more than her words that cut me to the bone. And it’s the only time in my life where I consciously decided to bring a person down a peg or two or ten in a public setting. And I did that by simply answering, in brutal detail, how I could sleep perfectly well at night, but left her to wonder how my mother could by telling her just a tiny bit of what my childhood was like, in Technicolor detail of course. To say I knocked the wind out of her sails is putting it mildly. I made a bit of a fool out of her. I am not proud of that. She is an old lady in her 70s and I was blunt to the point of cruelty with her. But one thing I do know is: she will never look with disgust and use such judgmental wording again if she encounters someone who is no contact with their parents. Of that I am sure.

And that’s why, while I will never and have never advised NC to anyone, in real life or on mumsnet, I do think these discussions (even the ones where I think NC is being bandied about needlessly and wrongly) are on the whole a good thing. It makes so many people aware of something that they simply never were aware of. Even though both myself and my husband come from abusive families, and both have been no contact with our parents for years, MN has helped me see that this whole thing is a far bigger problem than even I thought it was.

Chances are TheFirmament and I could be gym-buddies or good neighbours or colleagues with a good realtionship for 10 years or more and have no idea that each of us is NC with a toxic parent(s), as it’s simply not something that all of us shout about. For obvious reasons.

[HesterShaw]

Luckily for you, you don't appear to have toxic relatives who bring you nothing but trouble and heartache then.