To wonder what the average family incomes are of pupils attending different types of schools.

[smokepole]

I wonder what the average family income is of Grammar , Modern, Comprehensive, Private and Public Schools are.

Obviously there are FSM indicators but this does not really show anything
regarding average family incomes. FSM percentage does not show the reasons for being on FSM, for instance a pupil at a grammar school could be on it for a short time due to a 'Family Crisis' where as a pupil from a modern school might be trapped for a long time.

What would be interesting if we could find out whether grammar school families on average have twice the income of comprehensive. The other thing that would be interesting would be to find out how much the average 'Public School' family earn.

Why is this information useful to you? are you writing a paper? fwiw I don't think you would find much out; public and private schools will have a higher average faily income than non-fee paying types, but at the non-fee paying schools there will be a vast range.

Just a point if you're talking about UK, Scotland doesn't have "public schools". We have a fair number of private, fee-paying schools.

Neither do we have "grammar schools" nor "modern" nor any other variation. It's a straight choice between state comprehensive and private.

There are many schools both in the private and state sector which have the word "academy " in their name but it's just part of the name and not equivalent to academy in England.

Umm, strange thread. People with children in private schools come from a huge range of incomes. Bursaries and Scholarships cover fees if families are struggling, a lot of parents work long hours to cover them, a lot of grandparents pay the fees too. Non-fee paying schools also have families who earn very different amounts, from living off benefits to millions. Public Schools are the same as private schools and both attract families from overseas too.

I'm not sure why this information is relevant to poster either.

In Edinburgh about 25% of children entitled to attend an Edinburgh council run school attend a fee-paying school which is I think the highest proportion anywhere in the UK. Why that should be is moderately interesting.

Thanks. The reason I ask is because I would like to see, how big the gulf is terms of income and opportunities between the 'best'and worst schools. The Sutton trust not long a go showed the average wage that people who went though the 'Assisted Places' scheme were earning now.

It would also highlight the 'huge differences' in terms of social mobility aspiration , education of parents even across state schools. I know these figures are not published, but it would explain a lot about life chances being dependent on what type of school you attended ansalso the education of your parents.

Slighty. I am not writing a paper, just about to start an OU Degree in Social Science. I am interested in social and financial make up of the country and that includes schooling.

The Assisted places scheme helped a hell of a lot of children who wouldn't have been able to access private schools otherwise. Many schools offer extensive bursaries now, but children who would benefit are still being turned away because their pots are not large enough to fund all of the places needed.

There's a student section for students who are posting for research by the way. Maybe you could report your thread and ask MNHQ to move it. People are less likely to think you're a journo if it's in the right place.

Good luck with your degree. On your course I have no doubt you will very soon be doing a module on research skills. When you've done it perhaps set up some focus groups or a very well written questionnaire to see if you can get some answers to your questions.

As people have said, there will be a vast range of income types at all types of schools. Some families with a very average income will choose to spend all that money on a private school place for their child. Some higher earning families will be happy with their local comprehensives (I am a teacher in an 'outstanding' comprehensive and we have lots of families like this) and choose not to spend their money on private school when they could probably afford to.

Surely this is going to vary hugely, within any 'type' of school though.
I live in a big City. It's not a grammar school area, so, you could argue that all the schools are 'comprehensive' ~(putting aside Academies, Free Schools and so forth for now). However, the housing in some suburbs is very poor, and in other areas, very affluent. I think it's reasonable to assume the household income of people living in the houses that cost 3/4 of £million is higher than those who are renting in areas that come at the bottom of the council housing list. They all - according to your criteria - go to the same "type" of school though.

I went to a comp. I did notice that those in the top set (apart from me, I was an anomaly) were all from fairly wealthy families. Those in the middle were not as well off, those in the bottom set were very poor. Maybe family income is correlated to attainment

Geez you don't need to do 'research' to know that a school on a scheme will have poorer parents than a school in a suburb with high house prices.

On your course I have no doubt you will very soon be doing a module on research skills. When you've done it perhaps set up some focus groups or a very well written questionnaire to see if you can get some answers to your questions

Good advice.

but it would explain a lot about life chances being dependent on what type of school you attended ansalso the education of your parents.

I'm not sure it would, because there are too many exceptions to the rules. There are plenty of high achieving children on FSMs and there are plenty of children with lower academic ability from 'comfortable' families.

I think it would be more interesting to focus on parental aspiration in relation to children's achievements, and the schools they choose, rather than family income.

What's the difference between a modern school and a comprehensive? I have never heard of a modern school. Also, what's the difference between public and private? Isn't that the same thing?

In 't' olden days the school system was split between secondary moderns and grammar schools. Those deemed bright enough got to grammar schools to learn Latin and triple science. Those deemed not bright were packed off to secondary moderns to learn woodwork and sewing, and there was little emphasis on sciences or maths.

A little while later, the Gov at that time found this a crap and unfair idea, so removed a lot of the grammar schools and mixed the children together to create a comprehensive school system, where children of all abilities were taught.

Public schools are the very old private schools, usually boarding. Places like Eton, Harrow etc (Wiki has info on the schools involved), there were only a handful of them. Private schools are schools which opted out of local government control so have their own policies. They charge the parents a fee in order to fund themselves.

Now we have academies, I've no idea what these are, and there's free schools, which the current government brought in, where parents set up their own schools but they are funded by the government (sneaky way to make private schools for free if you ask me).

Thank you for that LadySybil!

No worries. I'd just missed out on a Grammar School education as they combined them a year earlier. I remember the Grammar School going up in smoke. Literally as someone burned it down. My Comprehensive still taught needlework, woodwork and child development.

Thank You Slightly Confused. 'Just Speaking my mind on a totally offensive thread in Secondary Education'.

Higher. I have not received a reading list yet, nor any Course Materials, they are due to arrive in early September. The statistical element to Social Science fascinates me.

Green. Having been educated in a Kent 'Modern' school in the 80s, let me enlighten you by saying it was just a 'holding pen' with little regard to academia or career choices. ( The School is now an Academy and does quite well, with its limited intake and 30% FSM) but still only gets 40% GCSE.

That is 1 million times better than 1990 , I think the 5 GCSE pass rate was 2% when I left. These schools are almost always located in areas of severe economic woes. I suspect in many of these schools the average family income is probably a third of that of a nearby grammar school. This of course means that with such income discrepancies these children will almost certainly not achieve their academic potential.

Grammar schools were fab. From my comp, 3 people out of the whole year (90 odd pupils) managed to get into university. If you have a class of bright children mixed in with a lot who don't want to be at school, it's very difficult to concentrate or learn as the teacher's time is spent doing crowd control rather than teaching. It also creates an environment where it's not 'cool' to be bright.

I wanted to be a doctor. I was told to become a nurse I did a law degree instead.

From our local government website:

"Academies
Academies are independently managed, all-ability schools. They are set up by sponsors from business, faith or voluntary groups in partnership with the Department for Education (DfE) and the local authority.
Academies make their own admission arrangements, but applications are coordinated by the Council".

Our area is almost completely academy dominated.

Also faith schools. *Voluntary aided - most are Roman Catholic or Church of England schools, and usually give priority in their admissions criteria to pupils of their faith. The governing body employs the staff, sets the admissions criteria and contributes to building and maintenance costs. The school buildings and land are normally owned by a charitable foundation, often a religious organisation. Voluntary controlled - similar to voluntary aided schools, but are run by the local authority. The local authority employs the school's staff and sets the admissions criteria. School land and buildings are normally owned by a charity, often a religious organisation, which also appoints some of the members of the governing body."

Weird, I thought there were plenty of grammars. Kent, parts of Yorkshire, Bucks, Birmingham.

I suppose Sutton Trust should commission the research on income. That link above says that only 3% of pupils at grammar schools have free school meals, even though their geographical catchment suggests FSM should comprise 18% of pupils (and the national avg for secondary schools FSM is 16.3%).

Or these stats from the Telegraph. That says that 92% of the 7% of families with kids in private education have access to an avg of £14k per child to spend on private education. About the same as household disposable income after rent/mortgage.

I've always counted 'disposable income' as what you've got to spend after you've accounted for all basic living costs and not just mortage/rent.

I was going with the definition of disposable income as the one used in the last link, I think that says disposable=what's left after rent. I'm kind of being ironic, obviously most people can't just spend all their money after rent/mortgage on child's education. Gives a pretty good idea of how financially comfortable are 92% of the households that send their kids private* and don't get any bursaries (or scholarships? and if the Telegraph facts can be relied on; I suspect they can't be relied on).

*Even Allowing for significant numbers who have a relative paying tuition fees, like a grandparent.

I have just read an article from the Telegraph saying that the top earners from grammar schools were paid £ 1.31 Per Hour more than top earners educated in comprehensive schools . That's hardly a 'monumental'
difference. However, it does not show what backgrounds the pupils have come from or their parent's professions. It is also quite possible that the grammar school pupils, could potentially benefit more from parents education and their higher valued properties. The fact being that although they only earn a minimal amount more in salary, they are far better off in terms of housing or potential 'inheritance'.

IIjkk. The statistics you show state the fact that 'anyone' who can afford private education, despite the insistence of many on here are 'well off' and have nothing in common with the vast majority of people.

£1.31 is actually not bad. A degree would top this up too.