A single girl in the train felt vulnerable.

[dramajustfollowsme]

I will try to keep this brief. I can't make up my mind in AIBU or not as this happened to my Dsis.
There was a really drunk man on the train. He almost didn't get on but the mannies were keeping an eye on him. dsis initially had been asleep at the table with her boyfriend and his mum and dad. Her bf then moaned about being uncomfortable and asked Dsis to move. so Dsis moved to a seat of 2 by herself. About half an hour before they got in the man sat beside her and she was really scared. He had previously sat down next to another girl and She said to them all 'omg I feel so sorry for her'.
Bf's mum then gave the man crisps. The man said 'is this tie daughter' and then she said 'no it's his girlfriend'. The man then asked Bf (very politely considering how drunk he was) if he would like him to move. And bf said oh no it's totally fine.
Dsis mentioned when they got off the train that she wasn't entirely chuffed with that response because she very uncomfortable and wanted nothing less that to have a very drunk man dropping crisps all over her. Her bf then went in a huff saying that he could have been beaten up but considering it was the man that asked if he should move then that would be unlikely. Bf's mum then spoke to dsis about how Dsis could have moved and it's not fair on Steven who would have just been avoiding confrontation. Dsis merely pointed out that she was uncomfortable and if the situation
arose the take the drunken man up on his offer to move away from me. The bf and his family are now in the living room and Dsis in the bedroom. Bf's mum says that it has ruined the holiday.
Her bf is coming to bed and Dsis has just heard his mum saying 'now I don't want things to kick off'.
AIBU in thinking bf's mum should just stay out of it?
And AIBU to think Dsis bf should have moved to the single seat himself instead of asking a girl to make herself vulnerable like that?
Background: his mum has a habit of only seeing bf's side of things and telling Dsis she is wrong all the time.
Bf lives with Dsis without contributing to the household as he is a student.
None of bf's family drive but expect Dsis to run them around everywhere. She doesn't then they sulk.
This had been a holiday Dsis and bf had arranged then his family decided to come too, expecting Dsis to pay more towards this. Again Dsis said no, cue more sulking.
Dsis really loves bf. He is a nice guy but the apron strings are very tight and he is in no hurry to cut them. I think she should consider their future as bf's mum would be a 3rd person always in their relationship.
There is the added problem that our mum and dad have both passed away. Bf always asks his mum for advice instead of making decision by himself. Dsis feels rail-roaded into things without having her parents to run things past. Therefore everything they do is always done the way bf's family do things. No compromises. I think that will become a huge issue if they were to have kids.
AIBU to think Dsis should think carefully about continuing this relationship?
It is hard as I want to support her like my parents would but don't want to become overbearing like bf's mum.

I don't know why you like her boyfriend he sounds like an arse!And his family sound bloody awful to.

I can understand why she'd feel like she couldn't say anything with her own BF and his mother talking down to her.It's awful that he was more worried about his own safety than his girlfriends!

The relationship sounds abusive to me,she's been made to share her holiday and was expected to cover the extra cost by people that act like they don't even like her and she's expected to ferry them all around and if they don't get what they want they sulk.FFS they're supposed to be adults.

My Ex husband was the same he was an emotionally abusive twat!Sadly your sisters boyfriend and family are coming across exactly the same.

I'd hope for your sisters sake that she leaves him and finds someone that appreciates her,that helps out with the bills and who isn't a man child.

it's awful

How old are they ? If the man had offered to move, she could have agreed and brought it about or even moved herself. Were there no other seats available ? She needs to develop better assertiveness skills. If she isn't happy with the set up then she can break it off and go home. Not up to you.

I'm having trouble following tbh.

Why was the bf bossing your sister around?
Why is he having to approve everything?

The drunk guy sounds a bit annoying but was polite and asked if it was ok to sit there?

Drunk guy was a non event. Your sister however needs to speak up and not rely on her bf answer questions about her

She could have moved.
She could have said she didn't want him to sit there.

Drunk guy doesn't sound like a threat from what you say, but I can understand why it made her feel uncomfortable as I was always the person on buses and trains who got stuck next to drunk people but usually hey were asking personal questions and invading my space, not sat eating a bag of crisps not really bothering anyone.

Your sister sounds like she is being quite feeble. She has a voice and she is allowed to use it. She didn't have to sit somewhere else, and even when she did she wasn't really vulnerable, nor was she single or travelling alone.

It's a non issue really.

Her boyfriend asking his parents for advice isn't a problem, he's perfectly entitled to do that, and to take their advice if he wants to.

Your right though that if your dsis doesn't like that then she should reconsider whether she wants to continue the relationship. It sounds like she needs to learn to stand up for herself more. She can't expect people to be mind readers and know if she's not happy with something if she doesn't say anything at the time.

The talk of 'single, vulnerable girl' makes her sound like she is a bit wet, but given that her sister is posting about an absolute non event on a train makes me think that maybe she isn't all that wet but is playing out a role that was decided for her in childhood.

She should have moved if she felt uncomfortable. I can't get wound up about her moving to the 2 seats, not him, as she wanted to sleep so it makes sense for the 3 awake people to stay sitting together at the table. I don't think sitting by yourself on a train puts you in an unacceptably vulnerable position and if DH had suggested I sleep next to his parents while he martyred himself to stop me from being vulnerable and single I would find it a bit insulting.

The drunk man shouldn't have behaved as if she was her bf's chattel but that's hardly the bf's fault. She should have moved or asked him to move rather than sitting their waiting to be rescued.

The bf sounds like a whiner and the parents sound awful and your sister sounds like she is willing to put up with their shit and moan about it after the fact. I don't know what you can do apart from tell her it's her life and she has to get the things that she wants using her own resources in her own way because neither you are her mummy's boy boyfriend can do it for her.

I think you're right to have concerns. He doesn't seem to care for her, he seems selfish and puts his own needs first, he's a mummy's boy and his family are very involved in his life. They all sound selfish and greedy.
Your dsis probably knows things aren't great. Keep talking to her and supporting her. Don't tell her what to do but encourage her to trust her own instincts and judgment. She also needs to be more assertive.

So the BF asked her to move seats because he was uncomfortable?? And then he basically spoke for her in saying that he was fine with this bloke sitting next to her. Why didn't he say "Well it's up to her, not me".

My advice would be for your DSis to run, run away and don't look back. This relationship/family dynamic is never going to be good regardless of the incident on the train.

Your sister is far too passive. If she is to have a hope in hell of making good decisions she needs to act with more agency, which I suppose starts with good self esteem.

I think it would be better to help her find/ access avenues to improving her sense of self.

Regardless what happened on the train, your DSis needs to get out of this relationship. She might love him, but her loving him seems to involve a lot of her paying for him and being the errand boy for his family.

This will not end well, there's not much you can do except be there for her though. Sorry.

I think you sound lovely but have understandably more of a maternal role to your sister, she sounds. Bit childish and not assertive.

The bf sounds the same with his mother but added sulky and a bit of a twat.

Lay on the line to your dsis, is she happy? If notake a change.

Bit hard to work out whats going on but the boyfriend sounds useless along with his family. Presumably the gf (DS?) has legs and a brain and can move herself without his permission, but granted the bf wasn't very courteous. Sounds like a mummy's boy who can't pay his way and expect he will get dumped.

Do you live in a very traditional culture where men tell women what to do?

I don't understand why OP is getting such a hard time. She's explained that she doesn't want to be an inter fearing 'mother' to her sister but is concerned about her. I think sometimes it's the small incidents that make us step back and look at the larger picture. She may have felt out numbered and was worried about making a scene, so said nothing until later. So what if nothing happened, she felt uncomfortable and that should have been obvious to the person who is 'supposed' to love her. The fact that HE was worried about the drunk man turning on HIM so didn't ask him to move away from his girlfriend speaks volumes about his character.

From the sounds of it your sister is being bullied by the boyfriend and his family. I know you say he's lovely but tbh he sounds like a little shit to me. He lives off her and his family invites themselves on holiday with them, expecting her to pay the extra. Wtf!

It might be easier to understand her reaction if she's very young and you've lost both your parents, I'm very sorry by the way. We've had posts before from young women who have lost their mothers and regret that they don't have a strong bond with their mil and people sympathise them, so why can't anyone see that this young lady may feel that she 'needs' love so is stuck in this crap relationship.

I think you need to ask her if she would be happy having a partner that would put her and her potential children's safety and happiness behind his and his parents.

Why didn't your sister just move if she didn't want to sit next to the drunk man?

Her boyfriend's family sound like slight twats perhaps but your sister also sounds pretty passive and whiny.

Bit of a non-story if you ask me. I'd stay out of it if I were you.

OP, I am very sorry that you and your sister have lost both your parents. My brother and I have too, and it makes you see the world in a different way, particularly when you are younger than you ought to be in the usual order of things. Good for you taking such care trying to work out how to support your sister without being a stand-in mother.

To be honest your sister sounds quite young and it may be time for her to move on from this "starter" relationship to someone who treats her with a bit more respect. Possibly though she has fallen into a family type situation and in a way enjoys the security of the BF's Mum being such a big part in both their lives.

i agree i think the train incident is a bit of a red herring and the main issue is a) your general gut feeling about your dsis' wellbeing in her relationship and b) your dsis and you are struggling still from the ongoing impact of the death of your parents.

i think therefore that your dsis needs counselling to help her be more assertive and that she would benefit from being with a partner who is more thoughtful and sensitive - and ideally has a family that is similar. I am very lucky to have the most wonderful and kind in laws, for example. your dsis has also to believe that a) there are kind and mature men out there and b) she is worthy of kindness in a partner.

lastly i know what you mean about parental advice being missing from your life and thankfully all the wonderful people on mumsnet are here to give advice. but you are best posting things like relationships rather than AIBU.

also you sound like a lovely sister.

Tbh I don't think that the problem is with your DSis. It is with her Bf and his family. I suspect she would suddenly become a lot more assertive once out from under their influence.

Thanks for the replies. I've been like a second mum to Dsis since she was 4 and I was 15.
Normally she is quite outspoken and bolshy. It is alarming to me that she didn't speak up. She isn't normally like that at all. Dsis says that bf's mum made her feel stupid. She often feels like this.
He is a nice guy when away from his mum but when she is around it is a nightmare. He reverts to a total mummy's boy.
I don't think it is a great relationship tbh and can't see it getting better unless he gets out from his mum's clutches.
Bf's mum didn't want "her boy" going near the drunk in case he became aggressive but at the same time thought it was funny when he was in dsis' face.
I just hope Dsis can see this is not right and changes things. She knows I don't think it is right that she supports him although he starts a graduate training programme at the end of the month.
The rest of his family expecting Dsis to jump when they call won't change though. She has spoken about with them but it doesn't change. I've told her no can be a sentence at times.
My dds are very young but I think the stage where you are supporting them as teens/young adults will be even harder than the newborn sleepless nights of the moment.

drama If you can then you really should push the 'independent valid person in own right' concept of being a young woman. If the BF was uncomfortable then HE should have moved. If your Dsis didn't want to be sat next to she should either have asked the man to move or moved herself. I would have gone NUTS at someone asking my DH if it was okay to sit next to me. I would have gone NUTS at my DH if he had responded with anything other than "she isn't my property - ask her if you want to know".

Try to convince your Dsis that she is a real person with the right to be respected as one.

drama - just a thought - this book really helped me www.goodreads.com/book/show/317566.Loving_Him_without_Losing_You

" It's the girlfriend "?!!

Charming!

And sums up her attitude, I feel.

Never mind the drunk man: what I find disturbing is that your DSis is already so passive that she is paying for her bf and his family, that she moved when he moaned and that she didn't feel able to speak up for herself in this situation.

I would advise any daughter of mine to seriously rethink the relationship and definitely not to have children with this boy.

why can't your sister speak up for herself? this whole thing is a non story if she wanted to move she should have gotten up. why do so many women these days not know how to deal with anything unless a man sorts it out for them.

as for everything else again it's up to your sister to sort. either she puts her foot down and stops agreeing to things she doesn't want to do or she leaves it carry on. nobody has the power to change that but herself

drama follows, send your DSis over here (more accurately, Relationships), point her in the direction of toxic families and introduce her to a lively MN term: cocklodger.

Your mention that she's normally bolshie, but couldn't/wouldn't assert herself really gave me shivers. She has to change things before it's too late.

In my experience of drunk people on trains, it does stress all other passengers out and there is a great amount of humouring of the drunk person in case they become agitated and cause a scenario.

So clearly the girl would not want to move (presumably she was blocked in by drunk man) and the boy would not want to kick up a fuss.

The boyfriend should never have asked her to move in a carriage with a drunk person in. I would not do that to anyone, male or female.