To not understand how some people afford to have so many children?

[KiKiFrance]

I mean this as a genuine question, but how the heck do they do it?

We have 3 DCs as that was all we could afford, yet I know families that have only one very average income that just seem to keep having children, and affording nice things, activities and holidays too.

Someone I know has just had her fifth baby. They are very early thirties and her DH works in a supermarket, and she is a SAHM, so obviously not on a high income, yet they always have nice clothes, the older children to lots of activities, they have a lovely new build house which is decorated beautifully, always eat out, and they bought all new (expensive) baby equipment for baby #5. She has also said to me that they'll have a sixth baby at some point, and possibly a seventh too!

The other person that I know has 4 children. Her DH is a chef but is always in and out of work, but again they seem to have such nice things, and her children to lots of activities and clubs. One of her sons has just had a huge birthday disco in a hall, and she said it cost over £300. They too are planning to have more children.

Our income is good, yet we generally can't afford half the things that they can, and certainly could never have afforded a 4th child, even though I would have quite liked another baby.

The3Bears

You can choose to live however you want to justas everyone else is.
I'm sure you do whats best for your family the same as others.
If you arehappy with your choices what does it matter what others do?

I know couples who have never worked who seem to have the same lifestyle as we do with dh working constantly as he is small business owner. I am not jealous of them or angry about what they have.

Tax credits and benefit only take income into consideration there are many like me who yes have played the system to some extent, because that has provided the lifestyle (not just financial) that we have chosen for our family.

We would have been far worse off if both had continued working after ds1 and I'm not prepared to work and be worse off.
If this has given my family far more opportunities than we would have had doing anything else then I am pleased with our choice.

There is no way our future after tax credits would be so secure had we taken an other route, so at least people like this are providing well for their family.

Sorry Chunderella x post there, my laptop is really slow at sending atm.

I really haven't ever sat down and said well if we do x we'll get more money. The system has just seemed to work for us.
I know somebody will say well bully for you, but we haven't always used or claimed everything to which we were told we were entitled.
Years ago we had free prescriptions, but didn't need any fortunately. Free school meals, the dc refused to take them as they were embarrassed and we never applied for council tax rebate even though we could have.

Chunderella

I know you weren't criticising, my post was really similar to yours as in its just the way things are.

Also, just to clarify to others that we don't all sit around thinking how we can get the system to work for us.
However, if a certain opportunity arises and you benefit more because you are a low income and receiving tc, you can hardly blame a person for taking it.
I also don't know anybody personally who had a child to gain more benefits, although I admit that maybe a very small minority could have done.

Thethreebears.

The people you know sound very odd to me. Something isn't right. As said I worked full time earning just over seven hundred a month and I was not entitled to housing benefit despite being a lone parent to four children. At the time I had my wage and altogether had about one thousand four hundred a month. I then had full private rent come out of that and full council tax some childcare costs around four hundred a month food bills plus gas and electricity. There was barely anything left.

The three bears no maximum tax credits for 5 dc are £1145 a month not £1400 . Plus £545 a year in total not per child. Please stop making up figures, the actual figures are freely available on the tax credit website.
Like I said either the figures are wrong of they have a disabled child.

i think most people weigh up whats best for their families it's human nature

whether others agree really dosent matter at the end of the day,they dont live your life and you dont live their's

who would put their family at a disadvantage just to appease others

SoonToBeSix she probably added the mums weekly allowance appr0x £72 a week

It does sound odd but it is 100% true, they get working tax credit too as her partner works an hour over the limit to get wtc so thats what bumps it up, I don't understand how they get all there rent paid too as I have other friends at uni, single mums who have their housing benefit slashed when they receive their loans.
Maybe they are hiding something as I remember her saying after she got her first uni loan that they had told her to put it in her partners name as she can't claim it as she was getting the loans
Im not sure I've never looked it up?
Im not making anything up as I said I have seen the award letter and they get £277 pw ctc and £56 pw wtc so £1332 pm tax credits + £291 or whatever it is CB a month.

I'm not doubting you threebears more doubting them.

Im happy to admit it bothers me, it bothers me my dh hardly sees our children while we earn half of what they receive, it bothers me all his tax he pays goes to people like this, it bothers me they can go on 2 holidays a year 1 abroad, 1 over here and go on days out to the zoo etc on a whim when we have to plan as to when we have saved up enough and when dh has time off, it really does bother me.
Im not envious I wouldn't want their life but I think its appalling the amount of benefits they get.

Maybe tax credits have dropped over the last few years. All I know was there was a huge fall out in our extended family when sibling 1 realised that sibling 2 had a similar amount of money to them (sibling 1's DH is a professional that works long hours and earns slightly above average wages, while sibling 2 is in low paid part time work and receives tax credits). Plus sibling 2 has received a new boiler for free, on some government scheme.

Even so, 1145 pm is still a substantial sum, which closes a lot of the gap between low paid part time work and full time work that requires a lot more effort (qualifications, always in touch, travel that makes it hard for the second parent to work etc).

And outside the world of law, banking, medicine and accountancy, wages do not keep going up and up and up for ever. Many people will get to 30/40k and stay at that amount more or less for ever.

I received two hundred and seventy when working in Tc.

It came to more than my full time work. Problem is once you are in the benefits trap for whatever reason it occurred it's hard to get back out of.

I'm incredibly grateful to benefits but at the same time I'd prefer not to be on any full stop. Each little change can lead to massive stress over delayed payments etc. it's not a life I would have chosen on purpose that's for sure.

I haven't felt this well off in years. My DP earns a rubbish wage and I'm a SAHM so when baby came five months ago we were awash with benefits. Bloody brilliant and very grateful, too.

There are a lot of things I choose to spend money on that others wouldn't and therefore they would have more disposable income. For example payments to pensions, life insurance cover and that sort of thing. If I didn't have those it would seem like i was better off.

but some people dont want to be a doctor,solicitor etc

some are happy to do a bog standard job,some have no choice

not everybody wants to go to Uni/college,some would but cant afford to

the problem is these jobs pay low,little security and will never pay a living wage now, should we scrap the TC for them just because they arent as lucky or dont want a profession

if wages were half decent in these jobs there would be no need for tax credits,when a grown adult works 40 hrs a week and needs top ups to raise a family their is something very wrong

im sure many that work would rather earn a living wage than have to claim TC

rant over

Pistol

We were like you, but tax credits weren't available until ds2.
I can remember getting the letter of our first award and weeping for joy, and being just as grateful x

We receive some tax credits though, Im grateful for that as we wouldn't be able to buy food etc if not but my dh is not on a high wage, he would love to go to uni but we can't afford it. All I am saying is why do people who have more and more children get the tc bumped up so much, wages don't! £1300 pm is another wage over the NMW in this area and thats without cb and hb added on top. Apparently my dh earns to much to receive any hb or council tax benefit but we have less than half there income, how is that right??

so their income is £1300 and your DH earns half of that and you pay full rent and council tax,have i just read that right

No, I mean with all there benefits etc.

ok,

The3Bears

This was my point up thread, there will always be people better off or seemingly for doing less than you, it might not seem fair to you.
But you can either accept this and be grateful for what you do have, make the most of it or be bitter and jealous, which doesnothing foryour soul or well being.
We all could have lived during a time when there were no tax credits or benefits to support a family, we are all fortunate in this day and age.
Not too long ago we would just have to have made do and if we couldn't support our dc, they would be taken from us.
Personally, I don't give a flying fuck what others have.

I love Christmas do you mean the mums allowance of Working tax credit or income support?
Either way it's not £1400 child tax credits a month.

i thought she was a single parent getting 72 is for her allowance,i thought she was adding that to the tc making it 1400

agree it's not 1400 ctc

It's ok Christmas have seen the breakdown , still find it odd that she told you her tax credit amounts three bears but not saying you are lying.
What you need to ask yourself is would the dc suffer if the tax credits were stopped and would you be ok with that?