AIBU re cyclist on pavement/cyclist going wrong way down one-way lane?

[blueberryporridge]

Just wondering, genuinely, if IWBU (I know I was a bit assertive) and also WWYD next?

Background (sorry, a bit lengthy): we live on a short stretch of narrow lane off a busy main road. The lane is one-way due to its width, and the direction of the one-way is because drivers coming off the main road are faced with a blind corner so, if anyone is on the road coming in the wrong direction, a car turning into the lane would be at great risk of colliding with him/her. Despite this, cyclists regularly cycle at speed the wrong way up the lane to join the main road. I always slow right down when turning into the lane in the car as I know there is a good chance there will be a cyclist (or a few of them) coming up the wrong way. There is a narrow pavement on one side of the lane (which is on our house's side of the lane and passes in front of our driveway).

Anyway, today, driving home at teatime rush, I was just about to turn into our driveway when I saw a cyclist heading up the lane in the wrong direction and just coming up to our drive. I normally stop to let any pedestrians past before I turn into our drive, but I must admit I was slightly fed-up by yet another cyclist heading in the wrong direction, and turned the car into the driveway making him stop. I also (and wouldn't normally do this but was feeling a bit exasperated after a hard week at work) rolled down my window and said "it's one-way". I noticed in passing at that point that the cyclist was actually on the pavement rather than on the road itself.

Cyclist proceeded to continue up the lane against the one-way flow, then turned round to come back and shout at me that he had been cycling on the pavement, not the road, and therefore it didn't matter what direction he had been heading in. I said that I felt it was inconsiderate and potentially dangerous to be cycling on the pavement, thinking of small DC or elderly mother possibly stepping out of our driveway unable to see cyclist about to whizz past our gate, and being knocked over. (Due to neighbour's mature trees, shrubs etc, visibility when coming out of our driveway (in the car or on foot) is not great.)

I also said that he shouldn't be cycling up the lane in the wrong direction due to the danger of the junction, and that approaching it on the narrow pavement wasn't any safer for him and made it more hazardous for pedestrians coming round the corner on the pavement.

He then told me that I didn't know anything about cycling. I explained that I do cycle quite a bit (well, I used to in my younger days) at which point he looked me up and down and said "I doubt it". (Obviously doesn't think I'd look good in black lycra, which is, unfortunately, correct....) He then went on to say that there was absolutely nothing in the Highway Code to say that cyclists couldn't cycle on pavements, and that he would be continuing to do this when he cycles home up our lane (in the wrong direction) every evening.

Well, I've checked up my Highway Code since and see, as I thought, that it states quite categorically that cyclists must not cycle on pavements. (It also contravenes a certain paragraph of the Road Traffic Act whose reference details I can't remember just now.)

So (1) WasIBU to tell him he shouldn't be cycling the wrong way up a narrow one-way lane with a blind junction and (2) that he shouldn't be cycling on the pavement?

And (3) Would IBU to print out a copy of the relevant Highway Code and legal paragraphs and hand them to him the next time he whizzes along the pavement in front of our house?

Or is it none of my business (unless, of course, I end up knocking the down or being knocked down by him as I come out my gate on foot one evening?

passive/aggressive? Really?

BBJ

" "You and the cyclist could both instead lobby for a safe cycle provision where there is clearly demand"

How would that help in this case where the cyclist is illegally riding the wrong way up a one way street?"

^^^

Because if there were proper safe cycling provision then the (many) cyclists who cycle the wrong way up the OP's street would no longer feel the need to, and would stop doing it. The cyclists would be happy to have a safe route (presumably the alternative is dangerous which is why they are breaking the law - not a defence but a reason), and the OP would be happy that they were not breaking the law and putting themselves and others in danger.

I don't endanger pedestrians whilst I cycle on the pavement, I don't cycle fast enough, I slow right down.

I'd actually much rather cycle all the way to work and back entirely on the road but I'm not prepared to risk my own safety.

I'd love it if there were cycle lines on all the roads.

Just one question for the OP

"Littmissmaths - would just like to clarify that I didn't drive across the pavement in front of him, put him in danger or drive unsafely in any way. I just did not wait on the road and gesture him to continue across our gateway like I would normally do with a pedestrian (or cyclist heading the correct way) before I started the manoeuvre into our driveway (which has to be done slowly as it's a very tight turn in a narrow lane)."

I have been reflecting on this and trying to picture exactly what happened. If you were not just in front of the cyclist when you pulled across his path, how did you make him stop, as you say in the OP? If you were well in front then surely you would have been on your drive when the cyclist got to you and he would not have been impeded, and you would not have been able to wind down your window and talk to him?

I just can't picture a scenario where the cyclist was forced to stop, and you had the chance to wind down your window and talk to him (?from your drive by then?) but in which you were driving safely and reasonably.

and btw the HC is full of caveats about cycling on the pavement, and it's mostly left to the discretion of police to determine what is and isn't reasonable. I ride on a pavement up a dangerous piece of dual lane road (about 1/2 km) that is heavily populated by lorries coming off a motorway into Manchester. Been doing this for approx 3 years each morning with never an issue.

Odd how many drivers insist on bikers conforming to the law, but then drive through red lights, ignore the bike box at lights, speed daily, drive waaay too close to cyclists, text/call, sound their horns illegally, park in contravention of bye-laws, and on pavements causing obstructions, drink and drive, eat their breakfasts and everything else one sees regularly - but then complain about cyclists doing nothing that endangers anyone nor impedes the driver's progress.

Well said Pan

I will hold my hands up to very occasional footpath riding.

There's a footpath for 200yds between the edge of our village and the start of the cycle path. The road is very busy and fast, big lorries. The pavement only goes to a town six miles away, no houses and nothing inbetween the village and town. So people don't walk on it. Its narrow and there isn't room for me to push my wide trike. If I did meet someone walking I'd stop and let them pass.

I wouldn't ride on a pavement in the situation the OP describes.

Two wrongs pan do not make a right.

Op, thanks for clarifying that is it against the Highway Code to drive a bike on pavements.

My 3 year old ds2 was nearly knocked down by a boy of about five riding a bike through a pedestrian underpass three weeks ago. We waited with the boy for nearly ten minutes as he said his mother was following behind, but we were going on holiday and couldn't wait longer. I did warn him not to use it on pavements as he had nearly knocked down ds2, but he just said that his Mum let him ride it so it must be ok .

I hope all of the people who think it is ok to drive a bike on pavements realise that there is then no where safe for pedestrians to walk. You might think it is safer to go on the pavement, but if you injure or kill a pedestrian you will have taken from them their lives or health, and risk going to jail. Two lives ruined, but it would be your fault. Please think about it.

Note how law-breaking cyclists use drivers' bad behaviour to justify their own.

We are talking about pedestrians, not bloody drivers!

Round my way the expensive cycle lanes are ignored by cyclists in favour of the road and the pavement.

Stay off the pavement unless you are prepared to walk your bike.

Coffee, children are allowed to ride on pavements :)

I have to ask where you expect a child to ride a bike? What was the alternative for that boy? A busy road with motorists? If so I don't blame his Mum for telling him the underpass was ok to cycle on.

It seems cyclists just cannot win. And if using the pavement briefly is the worst thing I do then I don't think I'm doing to bad. I wear a helmet, high vis jacket and never listen to music and when I do use the pavement I'm very careful and slow down when nearing pedestrians which is more than bloody motorists do when they pass me.

Honestly, I'd like to know where we are supposed to cycle.

extremepie if you'll note the wording of the op, children under ten are only allowed to ride on pavements under adult supervision. There wasn't an adult within ten minutes walk of this child, and he nearly knocked my three year old down!

I'm pretty sure a 5yr old would not be expected to ride on the road without adult supervision? He shouldn't have been going fast enough to injure your ds but he was still allowed to be on the pavement it's ridiculous to suggest that a 5yr old belongs on the road with cars with or without an adult!

Also, you don't drive a bike, you ride one, they are powered by people not an engine!

Mrs the child nearly caused an accident. He could have dismounted and walked his bike, especially if he had a responsible adult to help him as the law requires. He didn't, because people like you only seem to think of yourselves and not of the pedestrians who are permitted to walk along pavements without being run down by bikes.

I cannot believe anyone is defending illegal behaviour that nearly injured my son.

Mrs the child nearly caused an accident. He could have dismounted and walked his bike, especially if he had a responsible adult to help him as the law requires. He didn't, because people like you only seem to think of yourselves and not of the pedestrians who are permitted to walk along pavements without being run down by bikes.

I cannot believe anyone is defending illegal behaviour that nearly injured my son.

Littlemissmaths - I didn't actually force him to stop - he stopped himself at my driveway because he saw me indicating to turn into my drive off the road. (Sorry, choice of word was not totally correct in OP.) I was already pretty much stationary at that point, because I was almost at our driveway, and had been driving very slowly in any case as I had just manoeuvred past the postman's van stopped just along from our house (there's a very small siding at that point which means that two vehicles can pass each other with great care and slowly) . After I indicate, I always have to stop on the road beside our driveway entrance because the turn into our drive is very tight (90 degrees) and involves some reversing in the lane to get lined up to get in to our narrow driveway from the narrow lane. I didn't make him stop - he stopped because he could see that I was indicating to turn in. He made eye contact with me to see if I was going to wave him across before I turned in. On this occasion, I didn't gesture to him to cross the driveway as I would normally do, so he had to wait at my gatepost till I was in my drive (which took less than 60 seconds).

As I drove in past the gatepost (at about 1mile per hour or less), he was standing about 2 feet away (just short of our gatepost on the neighbour's side) from my car window watching me turning in, and that's when I felt the need to roll my window down and say something (probably because of the rather chagrined expression on his face presumably caused by having to wait for a very short time).

So I didn't drive my car at him, I didn't force him to brake suddenly to avoid my car, I didn't put him at any risk whatsoever - I just made him "wait" (when he was already stationary) for a minute or less before he could continue cycling (illegally) along the pavement past my driveway entrance. As I mentioned above, I normally signal to people on the pavement to cross our driveway entrance before I start turning in. I just didn't feel like extending this courtesy to him because he shouldn't have been there on his bike and because I am fed up with entitled or unthinking cyclists putting themselves, me and my family at risk in our lane.

Illegal behaviour?? Come on! He's a child. It was an unfortunate accident.

And yes I will think of myself cos whilst I'm on the road I don't see many motorists extending me the same courtesy. Oh no, it's more like lets if I can squeeze my car through the gap before Mrs gets there. She'll just have to get the hell out of the way to let me the much more important motorist pass.

As I've said. I slow down whilst I'm briefly on the pavement. I don't want injure myself or anyone else.

There are plenty of roads which are one way for motorcars and not for cycles - but there are also a lot of motorists that don't realise which one way streets are only one way for motorcars and not cycles - but the same goes for the cyclists getting confused as well and cycling down one way streets that are for both motorcars and cycles.

I have been shouted at for cycling down a street that is one way for motor cars only and cycles are exempt - should I continue to ride legally down a street that is two way for cycles and one way for motors? There is no way the motorist can see the sign as they are not pointing in the correct direction to see it - and how would they know it is there?

www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/pavementparking/

flipflop - two wrongs don't make a right I agree but do theses that shout loudly about cycling on the pavement also shout loudly about drivers on the pavement?

Gosh, it's like I hadn't posted! Stop blaming pedestrians for what drivers do to you! That doesn't make it OK to terrorise pedestrians!

For what it's worth op I think you were BU. He waited. He could've been a twatty cyclist and carried on peddling but he didn't, he waited. Instead you made him wait so you could berate him. No wonder he was annoyed at you.

flipflops but the OP was in a car . She was not a pedestrian. And the cyclist was going so carefully and thoughtfully that he stopped to let a car drive across the pavement in front of him after she made eye contact so it doesn't sound as though he was about to mow down a pedestrian, even supposing there had been any.

OP yes, your first post was indeed confusingly worded as it said:

"I normally stop to let any pedestrians past before I turn into our drive, but I must admit I was slightly fed-up by yet another cyclist heading in the wrong direction, and turned the car into the driveway making him stop."

..so you did make it sound as though you forced him to stop by deliberately driving in front of him (which pretty well takes away any moral high ground you may have had).

I don't blame pedestrians and nor do I terrorise them.

Believe it or not I want to go to work and come home on my bike in one piece and the same applies to motorists and pedestrians alike.

Anyway, this cyclist bashing is getting bored. There is a Curry with my name on it.

Laters.