To think that children really don't need to use their scooters in the supermarket?

[Pointlessfan]

Or inside shopping centres or any other place where there really isn't enough space and the rest of us have to keep dodging them. This is seriously getting on my nerves, every time I go shopping I have to keep jumping out of the path of children zooming about on scooters. Why can't they ride them in the park? I was brought up to be considerate of others and would never have been allowed to use a scooter, bike or roller skates in shops or any where else where I would be in the way.
Feel better for getting that off my chest! So is it just me or are others equally annoyed by this?

Is this new?

Yes. We have somehow found ourselves in a situation where the rules just don't matter any more. As long as whatever they are doing is ok for them and their children then the rules and anyone else doesn't matter - until they or their children get hurt that is.

I'm only in my 30's and most of the stuff I see going off wouldn't have even crossed my mind to do in the first place. That's without going into what kids at my kids school do.

The word "entitled" gets thrown about a lot on MN but there really isn't any other word to describe what we are dealing with. I'm not even sure who it is to blame..the soft laws and punishments? the parents? the kids? the PC brigade? politics? the compensation culture? teachers not being able to dicipline in schools without the parents having a go back?

Consideration and respect for others died a long time ago...in fact, earning respect in the first place and not just expecting it is alien to most kids I've had to deal with over the past year...and now we are dealing and seeing where this had led us. This goes hand in hand with the lack of manners you see people moan about too.

Smiles

I think that tou are exaggerating the extent of the problem, although I absolutely agree that this never used to happen at all.

I blame Thatcher

Really?

have you seen the way teachers in college are spoken to by 16/17 year olds? In secondary school? T

There isn't a single thing there that I haven't seen myself first hand. There is no way it's an exaggeration. It's a serious problem that I can see getting worse.

Ok I appreciate it can be difficult to avoid a meltdown in a shop and that a child could also cause an accident on their feet but surely a hard, polished surface onto which things might have been spilt, fruit dropped etc and surrounded by shelves stacked with glass jars, heavy tins etc is not an ideal surface for wheels? It is putting children at risk of an accident even if nobody else was in the way.
i don't agree with the sentiment that children are all inconsiderate with no manners as I teach secondary age and the vast majority are lovely, hold open doors etc. When I was pregnant there was no shortage of offers to carry piles of books but there is certainly a significant minority of parents failing to teach their children to be considerate of others.

I don't doubt it.

What interests me is where a sense of collective responsibilty for children went. We are failing them. I would not hesitate to tell off a child I saw behaving anti socially, and I'd welcome my children being reminded of the rules when they are out of my sight and influence. I'm talking about things like littering, throwing snowballs at cars, swearing.

But so few people do intervene. We need to be braver.

You are so right Smiles

Nowadays everybody has rights but nobody has responsibilities - everything is someone else's fault

As we've seen in the news all too often, anyone who tries to uphold decent standards in their community is likely to be assaulted or worse.

We are doomed.

No we aren't we are the majority! I really believe that.

Oh, and the news will never convey the good things, the majority of good things that happen in oure communities.

We may be the majority but we're a fucking quiet one.

Everything you moan about behind closed doors with your mates, you are always agreed with, but when it actually happens, in front of us...does anyone say or do anything? No. Why? Because it's not worth the grief, the trouble, the retaliation or even getting arrested yourself in some cases.

THIS is the problem. Until people are more confident in actually correcting antisocial behaviour, at home, in schools and out in public without fear of getting themselves into trouble this will not end.

Want to dicipline someone elses child who has just tripped up someone else because of their scooter? You have to think..is it worth getting shouted at (because you will), is it worth potentially getting stabbed (has happened before), is it worth getting arrested for it? (can you defend yourself in your own home? Not until they attack you first (this has to be the most bizzare, unclear and pointless law ever to have passed in recent years)

No one stands up to this behaviour because the ones that do find themselves in hot water when rightly it should have been the other person. You can't stand up for something when you think you don't have or have no leg to stand on in the first place.

When dd1 was two, she was knocked flying by a 12 year old on heelies in the supermarket. Staff called an ambulance for dd1, and police for the 13 year old, who I actually felt quite sorry for - mum had told him it was fine to skate round the supermarket and he hadn't obviously realised the danger.
Dd1 had a broken wrist and collarbone and the 13 year old was cautioned by police who classed it as assault. He left flowers and a little toy for us at the supermarket, along with an apology letter, but staff told me that mum had kicked up a major stink as they'd phoned the police on her pfb, and how dare they and it was a breach of his human rights etc.

Lesley you say Nowadays everybody has rights but nobody has responsibilities - everything is someone else's fault and this includes the responsibility of members of society to report things, complain to shops, speak to the child or parent where it is reasonable to expect this will not cause danger, try to change things that are wrong.

Certain people absolutely love to suck their teeth and sigh about how terrible everybody else is, how things are getting worse, how nobody takes responsibility - I hope the people saying this are actually bothering to speak up in RL situations, not just have a whine and a tut on MN. (Having a :o "you'll never guess what I saw" post is absolutely legitimate, obviously, and quite cathartic or fun, but when people start making big statements about society, it starts to rankle if they are hypocritically failing to behave like a part of that society, and thinking that if they wander around in their bubble not impacting anyone else they are a responsible member of society.

The people who claim to be "worried" about hypothetical vulnerable elderly people always pop up on these thread - if those people are genuinely as worried as they claim to be I hope they are doing something - complaining to the manager or writing a letter or email to the shop cc.ing head office, at least, speaking to the child or family if the situation looks as if that might be an option. Claiming to be worried but walking on by makes you one of the people claiming your rights but not taking responsibility.

Newt I agree. ^What interests me is where a sense of collective responsibilty for children went. We are failing them. I would not hesitate to tell off a child I saw behaving anti socially, and I'd welcome my children being reminded of the rules when they are out of my sight and influence. I'm talking about things like littering, throwing snowballs at cars, swearing.

But so few people do intervene. We need to be braver.^

In most countries, people do exactly what Newt describes - society is a collection of people with responsibility to one another not individuals in little bubbles who are being "responsible" if they stay in that bubble and keep their own children tightly in line just in case somebody silently judges them. Just not letting your own child ride a scooter doesn't win you the moral high ground if you walk by on the other side and do nothing in a situation you believe presents real and imminent danger to somebody else.

Human right = right to education, food, clean water, a roof, clothing, not be sexually exploited/married off or generally physically abused. 'The right' to skate around Sainsbos isn't really the same thing.

People who start whining about their 'human rights' piss me off immensely when it is really shorthand for 'I want to do what I want to do and everyone else can eat poo if they don't like it'.

I'm as forward as they come and if I see something I don't like, I'll say. But what got me thinking was a newspaper article I read this week.

Some teenagers had been misbehaving on a small childrens park, a woman asked if they could settle down a bit and a 14 year old walked over to her and punched her. The poor woman had a very bruised face.

It's scary that by doing the right thing you can get in that situation.

Smiles

I am saying I do step forward. I live in an inner city borough. I am not stupid about how I approach people, but most people don't get stabbed, or even shouted at, so I'm not prepared to be ruled by that fear.

Morphine there are plenty of options in between confronting people (though its sad people feel to afraid to do so) and doing nothing - ask for the manager, have a word with a security guard (no way of knowing whether they'll intervene without bothering to ask), at least contact the store manager and head office by email alerting them to the problem, highlighting the dangers and the fact it is happening and asking for a written response. If people really feel this is a problem posing real danger of serious injury or death to a vulnerable person, then walking on by and doing nothing and then claiming its not your responsibility is irresponsible.

Good for Pointless btw, who now says she will complain.

Oh of course MrTumbles, in some circumstances though there isn't anyone to help you, like the woman in that story.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/mums-horror-injuries-after-teenager-3927053

Newt I admire your optimism but as a teacher I've seen the decline in standards of behaviour over the years along with sanctions available to staff eroded.

Parents now routinely show up at schools without appointments demanding to know who dared to discipline their precious children, without bothering to find out the facts first.

The aggression towards, and lack of respect for, anyone in authority is very worrying and I don't see how there is any way back from it.

Mr Tumbles

This was my point about the way we interpret risk as a result of what is reported to us. All the times someone intervened and nothing bad happened are not reported. The newspapers have an agenda.

Lesley

I also work in a Primary school. I know the subset of parents you are talking about, and if it's not tackled in Primary they arrive at your door with their neuroses and their misperecptions about their darlings. So I', not naive, just not ready to give up! Strong leadership is so important, i think Heads need to be much more Authoritarian.

... oh and respect for teachers should come from the top down too.

Thanks Mrtumbles, I've been reading this tonight feeling guilty for not complaining yesterday. To be honest it is something I've personally been irritated by in shops a few times lately and I hadn't really given much thought to it being dangerous, just bloody annoying (am fully occupied with 4 month old at the moment so not always thinking about other things properly!) I posted to see if other people also have a problem with it and am relieved it's not just me. Agree things won't improve unless we speak up so not only will I be complaining in future, I hope everyone who has agreed with my original rant will too!

Oh dear, DS has been known to use his scooter in the Co-op as he complains he is tired of walking after three steps. I think I will restrict him from now on.

Chopin, stop avoiding disciplining your dc ( ie avoiding meltdowns )
And just apply the judicious use of the word "no"