In thinking Mother and Baby car parking spots....

[Writerwannabe83]

....are actually for parents with babies/toddlers?

It was always my understanding that the wide spaces are for parents who have car seats and pushchairs to contend with, not for parents of 10 year olds who just want to park nearer to the shop, like a family that I saw today?!

I'm only moaning because I've just twisted and scraped my back trying to remove my car seat from my half closed back door door, in a very tight parking space whilst trying not to scratch the car I'm parked next to.

I was secretly fuming at those in the Mother and Baby spaces who surely shouldn't have been there, like the one I mentioned above.

And breathe

I really don't understand the whole 'we didn't have them in my day and we coped fine'. Well that's great but isn't it also great that we have moved on and these spaces have been created to help parents with young children? In my grandmother's day there were no microwaves but I don't think she begrudges me having one now. Anything that helps is surely a good thing. I certainly don't think they're a right, but then I don't think there are many things that are a right (holidays in term time, holidays, mobile phones, sky TV, I could go on...).

P&C spaces are necessary because the ordinary parking bays at supermarkets are so bloody tiny, if they made them the size carparking spaces use to be when I was young there wouldn't be an issue. I'm very vocal about pointing out to people if they use them when they shouldn't. I once gave a 50 something woman (with no children) a right old telling off as I carried my (at the time) two under twos. She apparently hadn't seen the sign (that was right in front of her car) . People with older children tend to get a hard stare as I loudparent three small children across the carpark. Thankfully Sainsburys now have moved the P&C spaces to the back of the carpark so there is less of an issue than when they were right next to the disabled places.

Oh I love good old P+C bingo

honestly if you can't park in a normal space and manage you need more lessons

people who get so aggressive over parking spaces need to go and lie down in a dark room

^No, no, no!

Blue badge spaces and the use of blue badges are about leveling the playing field for people with disabilities. Its not just about space. Proximity, ease of parking near amenities, priority parking for people who are unable to use our largely inaccessible public transport etc

If you have shared spaces they will all be taken by people who think they need more help than someone who is child free.
I don't know how you think your statement is not equating having children with having a disability. It clearly is.^

P&C spaces and Disabled spaces both allow for more space, do they not? That demonstrates that both parents and disabled people find more space useful. That's a fact. I haven't said anything whatsoever that equates any other aspect of being disabled with any other aspect of being a parent.

Slarti the fact that there will always be someone who would actually have the neck to argue that a fit parent of a 12 yr old should have equal dibs on a priority parking space with someone with disabilities is why these threads always turn into bunfights, what a trite argument you make.

P&C spaces tend specifically to not be for 12 year olds, so isn't that argument moot? And if a supermarket found that parents and disable people having equal dibs on large spaces meant disabled people were losing out then that points to them not having provided enough large spaces!

Just move them to the back of the carpark. Parents with babies get extra wide spaces; elderly and other deserving people have some chance of getting a space by the door; and whingey parents who can't understand why they have to walk across the carpark and actually keep an eye on their kids or shield them from the rain will just have to get on with it.

No. More space is not just 'useful' if you have a WAV. Without the extra space you cannot get out of the vehicle.
If you have a child in a wheelchair you cannot physically get them out and into their chair if you do not have space. Not 'you have to twist and turn to wriggle the baby's car seat out'.
If you have a child or family member who has no concept of danger you need to get them from car to shop by the quickest route, not 'its hard to walk across a carpark with a baby'.
If you have a child who uses oxygen or suction you might have to turn around and go home if you can't get a wider space because you cannot get them them safely out of a half open door.

Do you see the difference now?

I seriously don't get the ''I don't think they're necessary therefore i'll ignore the signs and park where i please'' people. Or the ''I didn't have them in my day therefore they shouldn't be provided now'' people.

Do all these folk feel entitled to march into any designated BF rooms they come across and sit in there, because they can? Or occupy parent and baby change areas, because it's a free country? Or because they didn't have them in their day, or because they don't ''see'' the necessity and therefore refuse to acknowledge the simple courtesy of these spaces.

I'm prepared to say that when i see an obviously able-bodied person using the P&C spaces without any kids with them i think ''wanker''.

I don't think there's any connection or contention with this issue and disabled bays. I would have no issue with a disabled person using the P&C spaces if the D ones are full.

I love all this 'cars used to be smaller' stuff. My mum used to have a Volvo 240 estate when we were little. Bloody great tank of a car. Don't remember her having any problem parking it at the tiny car park next to the supermarket.

She had two or three 240's. When she traded her last one in for a new Volvo V70 estate I remember her being amazed that it had more side protection and leg room inside etc but was smaller than her old car.

I traded my VW Passat estate in last year for a Landrover Freelander. I've since been accused of driving a big car and I often point out that my new car is half a foot shorter than my old car.

you think wanker if you want ...maybe they have been dropping their kids off or picking them up?

I have done this on previous occasions - think what you like

these spaces aren't needed so it doesn't matter

fluffy I don't use P&C spaces if I don't have a child with me (I rarely use them if I do). Your analogy doesn't make sense.
People without children need to park. They don't need to use a changing or feeding area.
If they did , e.g. if they were feeling panicked or unwell and they needed a quiet place to sit urgently, would you think they were being outrageous if they did pop in to sit down for a minute?

I'm prepared to say that when i see an obviously able-bodied person using the P&C spaces without any kids with them i think ''wanker''.

How can you tell someone is "obviously able bodied" by looking at them?

DS looks "obviously able bodied" but on a bad day can only walk a very short distance before he is struggling for breath.

As he gets older it is becoming more of an issue, and me carrying him is becoming harder. So sorry if it pisses off people but I will use P and C spaces if I have no choice but to go out with him (phamacist in supermarket) because sod what anyone else things, it makes his suffering a bit less

No. More space is not just 'useful' if you have a WAV. Without the extra space you cannot get out of the vehicle.
If you have a child in a wheelchair you cannot physically get them out and into their chair if you do not have space. Not 'you have to twist and turn to wriggle the baby's car seat out'.
If you have a child or family member who has no concept of danger you need to get them from car to shop by the quickest route, not 'its hard to walk across a carpark with a baby'.
If you have a child who uses oxygen or suction you might have to turn around and go home if you can't get a wider space because you cannot get them them safely out of a half open door.
Do you see the difference now?

My entire point is that they aren't equivalent yet you're carrying on like I've said the opposite

If it's an elderly person do you also think 'wanker' Fluffy? My friend was berated by a fit looking woman with a toddler for using a P&T space. When she explained that her sister, who was with her, was recovering from major surgery and got a bit breathless when she had to walk far, the woman stated that she 'should use a disabled space then and not take up a P&T space'. Yes, "wanker" was one of the words that sprung to our minds.

''if they were feeling panicked or unwell and they needed a quiet place to sit urgently, would you think they were being outrageous if they did pop in to sit down for a minute?''

No i wouldn't. They had a need. Personally if i saw someone panicked or unwell i would try and help. If we were near a BF room i'd help them in there.

Sirzy i take it your DS is a child? Therefore you've got a child with you. (under 18?) So i wouldn't think 'wanker'.

Gordy - we have to agree to differ on this because i can see a need. So i'm afraid i'm sticking with wanker. But as you don't care then it's ok

My youngest DC is 8 and I will continue to use those spaces until she enters the sixth form is old enough to refuse to come shopping with me.

If it's an elderly person i don't think wanker either. I can see they might need the space to get the door open.

So what are you saying Slarti because your posts seem very much as if you think they are.

P&C spaces and Disabled spaces both allow for more space, do they not? That demonstrates that both parents and disabled people find more space useful

^^

You are clearly putting parents and those who need BB spaces on a par with your statement that both groups find a bit of extra space 'useful'

But that could just as easily be an adult who needs the space, but doesn't show they are disabled (or even temporarily ill). Plenty on here have suggested the spaces should only be used by those with very young children/under 3s - DS need for the space is more now than it was when he was a simple case of pick up and carry!

The point is need isn't always visible, and a lot of people need to be close to the shop more than someone who just happens to have a child.

too many posts to read but i tjink im not too bothered abt 10 yo kids using bays as they are prob a handful to get in and out of shops. i do however have a prob with people who use they bays witg no kids - even told of a disabled lady for doing it the other day and im pretty sure you cant even do that lol think as a parent you deserve one of those bays as long as their are kids and 10 years old is prob pushing it

I don't think they should be just for the under 3's. I cant answer for those who do.

On the subject of hidden disabilities - i have been MNing for years and can say hand on heart that i have been educated by reading threads about the daily struggles of those who have disabilities both obvious and hidden. I sincerely feel that.

However - when a 20 something leaps out of his van and skips into Tesco, or a woman pops out of her sports car in 6 inch heels and totters into tesco, or a car full of teenage lads send one of their number into tesco - all leaving their car in a parent and baby space - i allow myself to think ''wanker''.

So what are you saying Slarti because your posts seem very much as if you think they are.

P&C spaces and Disabled spaces both allow for more space, do they not? That demonstrates that both parents and disabled people find more space useful

You are clearly putting parents and those who need BB spaces on a par with your statement that both groups find a bit of extra space 'useful'

On a par? Those are your words, not mine. I've simply said that both groups find more space useful, which they do, don't they? Not to the same degree, but then different people with different disabilities aren't all the same either, and don't all have the same needs despite all having access to disabled parking spaces, which brings us back to my initial point and full circle. Anything else is your own reading and not my opinion.

Isn't there that infamous thread on Digital Spy where a poster came on to say that her 80 year old mother on crutches after an operation wouldn't allow her daughter to park in a P&T space with her in the car because mothers needed them more; and a few mothers came on to nod approvingly and say 'good for her' and such like. It was a real insight into the disgustingly self entitled attitude of some parents