To think that £1 billion of tax payers money spent on the arts in this country really only serves a minority

[goodnessgracious]

AIBU to think that organisations such as The Royal Opera House (they receive 26 million a year) should be self funding and not relying on tax payers money.

I would have thought that arts funding should be to support up and coming arts or at least arts that will benefit all of society. I really don't understand why certain organisations receive so much help from tax payers?

Interesting link.

Second tier: Sheffield *
Yearly net spend per person: £7.83

That means your local authorities invested:

£0.15 per person, per week on culture

The national average is 16p

OP - page [[http://www.roh.org.uk/learning]] of the ROH website explains some of the outreach and learning work they do. Including low-price (£5 - £20) tickets to productions for families, as well as partnerships with schools, colleges and communities to bring opera and ballet to them.

Link fail - the page is here

thank you riverboat I will check it out.

YABU. I conceded my opinion is biased as I get a lot of benefit of subsided art.

On the other hand isn't a lot of sport heavily subsidised? I have zero interest in sport but I don't fret that my taxes go towards it.

We went for a tour of the Globe a few days ago. It was interesting but I think they could have been a bit more generous in terms of sharing more acting and actual Shakespeare with us. We saw some people getting dressed in costume ready for a play, learnt a bit about stage fighting including a display of this, and were taken into the theatre to hear about how things would have been watching a play there (or in the original Globe) in Shakespeare's day. Also an interesting exhibition including some good models of Thames in Shakespeare's time.

But we joined the last tour of the day and when some actors came out on stage to warm-up and do some stretching exercises before the play being staged later the tour visitors were asked to leave. This could have been handled better I feel and really couldn't they perhaps stretch to reciting a few lines of Shakespeare on stage as part of their warm-up. It was slightly precious and mean spirited I felt, especially as the tour price ticket is over 10 for adults (6 I think for children) Was good but could have been even better with a more generous spirit of sharing Shakespeare with all

YABU. Arts funding goes far beyond London. It's cheaper to watch the ballet or go to the theatre then it is to watch the Premier League in my city.

English National Ballet use their subsidies to tour nationwide and tickets are very reasonably priced.

They do sell tickets for the plays, Juggling. They are on their web site We watched Julius Caesar last week.

OP, YABU. The Arts Council invests about 3 billion a year - roughly 1 billion from National Lottery, not from the government.

Many West End shows (War Horse, Les Miz etc) originated in the subsidised theatre - more often than not, The National. For the record, The Globe Theatre does not receive a penny from the Arts Council.

Took my DD to the ROH Welcome Performance for a tenner. Went to the National for £15. Happy that my taxes are doing such good work!

Yes, LadySybil, I realise one can purchase tickets to watch the plays, I was just giving some feedback on the Tour experience and feeling it could include a little more acting and Shakespeare itself. Hope you enjoyed JC.

It was excellent. The seats are rather uncomfortable though, even with a cushion. We didn't get to have a look around but we plan to go back.

Week done riverboat and startgirl for showing us that there are indeed reasonable prices at ROH. One thing that makes me really angry is the way that the philistines (including OP) insist on quoting the top ticket prices to prove how elitist Opera is, but never think to check all the brilliant offers and low priced tickets available as it doesn't suit their purpose. Why not try comparing it to the ridiculous prices for the premier league football tickets - you'll find that Opera compares extremely favourably.

Have you any idea of the costs of a production using some of the world's top artists and how lucky we are to have them even consider coming to our Opera house? The chorus and orchestra alone are on £40,000 grand each give or take and they are the lowest paid (and do a huge amount of work for that before anyone complains). As a comparison the Met in NY pay nearly three times as much.

Must of the small Opera companies that used to thrive on the UK and receive done funding have now collapsed, taking away extremely valuable and necessary work from the non-starry, but incredibly talented artists in this country and the country is in a dire state in terms of work for Opera singers and classical musicians.

I expect the OP would be happy to see the country lose it's top Opera houses and companies and would be happy to watch some lame Britain's Got Talent 'artists' perform and kid herself that she's getting some culture...

Excuse typos, bloody phone...

I tend to buy the most expensive seat I can afford for opera and ballet but it's still enjoyable even in the nose-bleed section. I've never been in RO house slips (is that right? The section where you're standing as it looks terrifying)

For concerts on the other hand the best seats acoustically can well be the very cheap upper circles, that's definitely the case in the Usher Hall in Edinburgh.

singsong

I did say I just randomly selected a day.

I would argue that it is still not accessible to all if the only way to be able to afford it is to purchase a deal or limited dates. Some people may not logistically be able to attend the cheap seats.

Also it is pointless comparing it to premier league football. That is not subsidised.

There is an argument (not that I agree) that if you are going to take taexs payer money it should be spent on what tax payers either need or want. On that basis we should probably be funding football which millions of people enjoy as opposed to ballet which only a minority enjoy.

Singsong

There was no need to get personal. I expect the OP would be happy to see the country lose it's top Opera houses and companies and would be happy to watch some lame Britain's Got Talent 'artists' perform and kid herself that she's getting some culture...

The ROH & it's two resident companies do a hell of a lot if community & education outreach work. There are various schemes for subsidised tickets including for students & families.

I have never been although dh & dd want to go but it would be far less expensive to visit than to go to see a West End show many of which haven't been doing too well recently (lots of sudden closures & performers not getting paid).

A few years ago, I took my football-crazy inner city school Y3 class to a schools ballet performance at ROH. The children absolutely loved it and talked about it for ages afterwards. We went on loads of lovely trips that year (including museums, The Zoo, The Royal Opera House is for everyone London Eye, Ecology Centre, Kew Gardens) but that was the class' favourite trip of all when we voted at the end of the year.

I hate bloody football so don't speak for me. As above someone pointed out that much of the funding is actually lottery money. I pity the future of our country if there are people like you who think football is more important than art.

You can get a £10 ticket at ROH for pretty much any performance if you book in advance, but doesn't sound like you'd ever actually want to go anyway.

Oh please, OP, I just randomly selected a day. Yes, and the most expensive seats stalls. Your definition of "accessibility" seems odd frankly. Even people with no cares about the price of a ticket will still need to book within a limited run of specific dates.

Look 30 million attend the theatre in the UK, vastly outstripping football in popularity, so clearly people do want it.

Because as LadySybil said, it costs a small fortune to stage a decent production. Your ticket price has to cover:

building maintenance and overheads (heat, light etc - do you have any idea how much electricity theatre lights need? It would be cheaper to feed all the lions in London Zoo on nothing but fillet steak and Krug)
staff salaries (from the director down to the poor sod who has to lock up after the audience have gone home and the set has come down)
cast and crew fees, not just for the show you've seen but also for the weeks of rehearsal
agency fees
costumes, set, makeup, props
rehearsal space hire
marketing and advertising
production costs including set design, lighting design, carpenters, joiners,
travel and accommodation if it's a touring show.

A tenner sounds like better value now, doesn't it?

I work in the arts, in a small venue out in the sticks. We get a small grant from the council which just about covers our running costs for 9 months of the year. We have to work really, really hard for our earned income because people a. begrudge paying £14 a ticket for a decent bit of music or drama or whatever and b. getting people to come to something they haven't already seen yet is a real battle. We had a lovely kids show on the other week, but because it wasn't Peppa fucking Pig Live or The Gruffalo, parents were all "ooooh we're not sure about that", like it was going to be a show about kittens being stamped on or something just because they'd never heard of it before. Just give it a chance! Or the smaller companies doing all the exciting and original and cool stuff will fold, and they'll take the smaller venues with them, and you'll be left with massive commercial productions of stuff everybody knows and nothing new or creative. So yes, subsidies are a godsend, and if you're not in the "minority" who benefits, then it's simple - take a chance and buy a fucking ticket ffs!

Singsong

You are being a little bit rude to me again. Please keep personal insults out of the argument. I have clearly stated that I would not agree to football getting a subsidy but put the idea forward to question what we pay taxes for. So why get so rude?

As long as the cheaper tickets exist and are not a "£1" flight ticket that no one actually ever gets hold of, I don't see how you can complain too much about the logistics of attending a particular show. They may not be on a Saturday or Sunday night.

Yet people find £500 to attend a music festival weekend. Yes, I get your point, no subsidies.

BTW, at our venue you can see five productions screened live from Covent Garden for less than the cost of ONE ticket in the actual ROH.

cingo

Actually the stalls are not the most expensive seats.