To ask about people who self harm?

[newsecretidentity]

I know a few people who self harm to one extent or another. One particular person, who I am relatively close to, has recently escalated the self harm (cutting, punching, bruising and flogging) and is struggling to get appropriate support from the MH crisis team. I don't really know much about self harm, but it does indicate to me that a person is in a vulnerable mental state.

This person is someone who works in a caring role, and who would also often spend time with me & dc every fortnight or so.

AIBU to be concerned about whether the person is ok to go to work caring for a vulnerable person with this intense level of self harm going on at home?

And AIBU to wonder whether it's a good idea for them to come and visit when DC are around? (DC are at an age where they will notice wounds and ask about them, and generally pick up if a person is behaving differently to usual.)

I don't want to panic and isolate the person unnecessarily, but I'm also concerned about whether the person is ok to "carry on as normal" with this stuff going on in the background.

Well, my personal opinion is that you shouldn't have to cope with that.

I have no MH problems I know of, but my anger levels have been usually high lately due to two pretty awful occurrences happening in close succession. I shouted at someone at a service station who was walking in front of me slowly surrounded by other people similarly plodding along a and I couldn't get through, EXCUSE ME!

The point is that her MH difficulties cannot and should not be laid at your door.

"I don't know how often I can get a phonecall from the hospital when they've tried to kill themself, and are so angry with the world."

Sounds really difficult. If it is negatively impacting on you, put a boundary in there and ask them not to call you from hospital. Sounds harsh but it easy to burn out when people crisis all over you frequently.

Obviously I am not diagnosing her! But she sounds a bit BPD , if that is the case she will struggle with support from the NHS. Partly because of the stigma and partly because DBT is very expensive.

Starshank: Yep, BPD. And really struggling to get support.

I think the important thing to note is that it is self harm - the person is hurting themselves rather than anyone else. I've been a self-harmer in some form or other for 20 years - I have two children and there are no concerns surrounding their safety. But OP, I don't think the self-harm is the issue here - the problem is that you have become their safety net and it is causing you distress - why are you getting the phone calls from the hospital - are you down as your friend's Next of Kin or is it you friend calling you? I find it hard to believe that someone who has made numerous suicide attempts would struggle to access the system.

Also, please don't diagnose her condition on the posts of the OP. Borderline personality disorder is a very complex mental health problem (I should know) but I agree that provision for its management is crap.

The person calls me from the hospital. And BPD is their official diagnosis. I should probably do some more reading on it to get some perspective.

I specifically said I wasn't diagnosing, I was pointing towards traits in what the op had said, and anyway my guess was right.

"I find it hard to believe that someone who has made numerous suicide attempts would struggle to access the system."

It makes it more difficult, they are seen as hard to treat cases. There is very little money for MH, I'm not surprised at all.

Ffs ignorance is rife isnt it! Concerned? Really? Best thing to do is keep the nutter away from your kids "mental" is catching you know. Oh and Inform their employer too. These people shouldn't be allowed near others.

I have BPD and have been on the waiting list for the team in my area for over a year - this is a team that does not yet have one member of staff recruited for my area and so it looks like one year will go into two. I know MH is massively underfunded. But from my personal experience of four different NHS Trusts, if a service user makes a genuine suicide attempt, then their case goes straight to the Crisis team. I use the word 'genuine' with caution as most attempts are just that. If you take an OD and end up having your stomach pumped in A and E, then a referral is made to the on-call psych (can sometimes take hours). But if you are going into A and E with deep cuts which aren't suicide attempts then you will get short shrift from the staff (which isn't at all helpful for the patient and can reinforce all sorts of feelings of rejection and abandonment).

OP, if you don't want calls from the hospital, then remove your name as your colleague's Next of Kin.

I'm not the colleague's next of kin. But they do have their mobile phone and call me from the hospital.

The person has been referred to the crisis team, repeatedly. And has been allocated a psychiatrist and discharged. The crisis team phones and says they'll be out to visit, later call to cancel the visit and nothing is followed up. I can understand why the person is frustrated with the system.

LEM, nobody has said they shouldn't be allowed near others. But if I'm finding their behaviour hard to deal with, should I be inviting them 'round to hang out with my kids?

And yeah, maybe inform the employer. Remember it's my employer too, and I also have a responsibility towards the vulnerable people we support. It can be a life-or-death situation that we work in, and it isn't easy. If the person decides on shift that they aren't coping, it's very difficult to get someone else in. So it's a lot safer and more supportive to be able to provide on site backup if it's needed.

(Besides, I'm guessing the employer has facebook and already knows)

The title of this thread should be "AIBU to make my colleagues MH condition all about me me me?"

That is what can be like having a friend with BPD. Most of the time she might live an average life - but when something triggers her condition then she will turn into someone very different. I've had professionals, including MH, who have been involved in my care who have been lulled into thinking that I'm a 'normal', stable person - but then one of my triggers will be hit and their reaction will be one of shock as I can become a very different person.

What you have to ask yourself new is the 90% worth the other 10%? And that's a question you can only answer yourself. None of us know your friend or you. But I can say that as a BPD sufferer myself, I would be incredibly upset by your rejection as this is what it would be perceived as. I am lucky in that I have a husband who knew what he was taking on when we got together and he accepts that 10% of the time I can be very difficult to live with - but this is outweighed by the 90%.

OK, fair enough. I get it. I'm being unreasonable.

Wasn't there a similar thread recently on chat? It did not end well and was deleted.

I don't think your opening post was well worded tbh. I'm not sure if you've changed tac slightly because of responses or are explaining better as you go along.

The support for mh issues is pretty woeful sadly so I'm not surprised your friend is being let down but the only solution is to keep pushing, difficult as it can be. Wrt work I'd discuss it "off the record" with the appropriate person, just outline your concerns about them possibly needing support, please don't suggest you think they shouldn't work as you don't know enough to make that call and it could have career changing repercussions. As for your dc, that's your call really. The wounds I would use as a base for conversation myself but you may not be comfortable with that. The anger is something only you can judge. If they consistently keep a lid on things around your dc then I'd watch and wait if not then maybe suggest neutral locations or school times etc?

Wow. Just wow. I suffer from depression and anxiety and im very open about it. I try to tell myself that people don't think less of me because of this. I have had situations where other mothers haven't let their children to my house in the past. Says more about them than it does me. I help put at dds school all the time. Thinking of training as a ta but on reading this thread I think I'll discount that option. Thanks op

You go right ahead and inform her employer. Hopefully they are more informed than you are. Quite frankly I find it a worry that you claim to look after vulnerable people. I would suggest your employers need to invest more in training their staff in the area of discrimination.

Oh and I used to self harm as I young person. It had nothing to do with "rage" more of a self loathing for allowing myself to be abused but yeah go right ahead and call me angry.

I think the OP is getting a hard time here.

She's concerned about exposing her DC to a level of emotional and unpredictable chaos that they may not be ready for and I don't think it's unkind for her to do so.

As she has already been dealing with the suicide bids and hospital calls, I would say she's been a good friend.

The question is whether she should limit this friend's contact with her family while she is volatile and vulnerable.

OP, I would do just that until she has more help. You can still be supportive as a friend and colleague without dealing with it in your home.

Your job sounds stressful and pressured, you need somewhere to unwind and find peace while you're not there and your home should be a haven for you and the DC.

I have made the same decision with a family member and it was hard and an unpopular one but I am glad I put my family first.

I too would share the concerns of the op but she admits to being completely ignorant of these issues. She shows no concern for her "friend". I get the impression this person doesn't have any support. The post was not about that though was it.

I think the op is getting a tough time here. it can be very hard dealing with people with mental health problems not knowing what to do for the best.

how old are your children op? if they were a bit older I would just explain that she isn't very well and hurt her arm. how bad exactly are the wounds? to be honest I have never met a person who self harms and then displays it.

if she displays erratic behaviour at work I would report it as you have a duty of care towards the vulnerable people you work with. if it went unreported and something bad happened later you would feel terrible.

I feel very sorry for your friend she isn't getting the help she needs and it sounds like she is crying out for any kind of help.

I would be there for her as much as I could

LEM I think you should go on and train as a TA. I'm a self harmer although I no longer cut. One of the nursery nurses at my DS's nursery has old scars on her arms - when I saw them I didn't worry about her being alone with my child - but rather that DS (and I) were privileged to have someone in his life who had managed to deal such adversity every day - I admired her bravery to come out the other side and to keep going. Not everyone is judgemental and you could be giving those children something a little bit different - go for it - we need all sorts of people to teach our children and education is more than just numbers and letters. Good luck.

I'm a former self-harmer, if such a thing exists - haven't cut for a few years so in my eyes that counts. I don't dispute that there may be issues with your friend/colleague, but the cuts etc are a bit of a red herring if your concerns are about their interactions with other people. For example, I was doing responsible jobs for a lot of the time I was cutting regularly. I wore long sleeves and kept a lid on the worst of my brain crap while at work - no damage done to anyone but me, hence my business. I also spent a lot of time with one particular colleague's children. When the older girl initiated a conversation about cutting - she didn't know I did it, a schoolfriend had started - I told her in no uncertain terms not to start because it was hard to stop. So possibly even a positive influence there.

Obviously, though, the irrational rages and other worrying behaviours are more of an issue. You have every right to protect your children from seeing this, and if she can't keep it manageable at work she should probably take some time off.

Honestly, if my friend was self harming, I would still invite her around. But not when DD was around. I wouldn't want her exposed to that.