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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

was I being unreasonable to say anything to my dsis?

26 replies

therenter · 27/07/2014 07:49

Bit of back story before I launch into recent events. Dsis has 4 children. Each by different fathers, none of the fathers involved as they were all losers (sorry to be frank but true). So dsis is on her own with 4 kids. I have had issues with her in the past continuing to make the wrong choices jumping into bed with no hopers and ending up bringing fatherless children into the world.
For the record I am not at all berating single mothers I think they so an amazing job. But my sister has chosen this lifestyle by choice rather than bad things happening to her.
This in itself would not actually be a problem if she were maternal. We all know that as a single mother you have to give twice as much out at least. You have to make up in time and love for the absent parent. Unfortunately for my sister this is not the case.
Her oldest dd (14) practically lives with my parents who are both on disability benefits due to various illness. My mum runs her to school and takes her to any appointments she may have. I have had to bite my tongue when visiting my mum and dad and hearing my niece asking her mum if she can go home for the night and my sisters response is to make every excuse under the sun not to have her home. She is very blunt in her tone with her daughter as well. The child has had numerous meeting with mental health professionals and is clearly troubled, and I firmly believe it is because she doesn't feel loved or valued by her mother. I have said something before and my sister didn't speak to me for a very long time. When I question my mum as to why she won't say anything she says it's because my dsis will stop bringing the children around and they will be worse off. So my parents allow my dsis to treat her children how she likes and don't say anything at all.

My dsis has been doing some good work for a charity lately but it eclipses everything her children do and it breaks my heart that she can be so passionate about something not related to her yet have so little time for her own children.
They have been left at my parents more and more. Her youngest does a full day in nursery but she doesn't use that day to help she uses another day which means mum and dad having to do school runs and have her youngest all day while she is out. Plus having the rest until 6/7 in the evening. There have been times when mum has had to pick her children up an hour or so early as she can't make the normal pick up and my sis is not prepared to leave her voluntary work early to pick her own children up.

This really is just a snippet of what gpes on (there is so much more) I haven't said anything because last time we fell out it was horrible.
But there is only so much as a mother that I can watch and be silent about.
Last week her dd2 was supposed to be attending a leavers ceremony at primary school. Her dd2 suffers from extreme self esteem issues and has been under the school counsellors and mentors due to her issues. She was put up for an award which would have done her the world of good to stand up and receive. But her mother had been working for the charity during the day and was tired, so she didn't go. My niece missed out on all the year 6 celebrations and receiving her award because my dsis didn't think she was as important as her charity work.

I spoke to my parents first to see if they would be willing to speak to my dsis but their view was that it was her choice. So, not wanting to ring her (don't forget been there and done that, her vileness is just horrible and I don't like confrontation). I pm'd her via facebook...

I know I shouldn't have done it that way but honesty know one is ever allowed to question her she has such a temper on her. I didn't want an ear bashing down the phone.

I was very very careful to choose my words. I said that it was a shame that her dd had missed the celebrations as she has received said award and it would have been good for her confidence to collect it.
Dsis response was all "well I have been doing all this fantastic work for this charity".
I wrote that I agreed that her charity work was great but she would be going to the charity again on Wednesday (it was only Monday) and it just would have been nice if she had gone to dd's leavers celebration as dd will never have that opportunity again.

Well that last comment unleashed the gates to all fury. You would have thought I was the worst person in the world! She accused me of looking down my nose at her she said a few things about what she thought of me (despite the fact that I have often picked her children up from school for her also when needed) she was as I expected her to be just horrible to me and is now not speaking to me at all.

So should I not have said anything at all?
On the one hand her children are fed and clothed and not neglected and it is none of my business.
On the other hand her dd1 lives with my parents most of the time and has mental health issues and her dd2 (11) has already been under counsellors and is showing signs of going the same way as her sister.
I am worried that each of her 4 children will grow up in the same manner and I wish that I could say or do something to stop that from happening.
Surely a child should feel that they have value, that they are loved and yes that they are the most important thing in their parents world.
These children are growing up feeling unloved and undervalued and nothing I can say will change how their mother treats them. And my mum has admitted to being too scared to say anything herself.
I just feel so sad for them :-(

OP posts:
therenter · 27/07/2014 07:54

I am sorry- I have just re-read that and there are so many errors- should have checked first before posting. Can I just point out that when I said.my mum picked her children up early, I mean from school. So they are missing out on some of their education.

OP posts:
nameuschangeus · 27/07/2014 07:59

That's so sad OP. I think you have done the right thing by saying something as it might just make her think. But this is a huge issue and she needs a fundamental change of attitude and I have no idea at all how this would come about. Sorry for adding no real value to the thread but just wanted to say that I think you've done the right thing.

angelohsodelight · 27/07/2014 08:01

I imagine if the children are being picked up from school early on a regular basis then social services will soon become involved, unless you call them first. IMO action is needed now before the two dds end up with irrevocable mental health issues. They aren't to young to turn their life around.

Purplewithred · 27/07/2014 08:02

That's so sad and so difficult. Your sister is a terrible bully and sounds appallingly selfish. You did the right thing telling her how you felt about her behaviour, her being angry is just because she doesn't want to hear it. Stand firm if you can and if it makes you feel better in yourself.

therenter · 27/07/2014 08:03

Thank you - I think maybe if I had more support from my parents it might help,but I am a lone voice and I am younger then my sis so she just does think my opinion is of value. She said I was stuck up and opinionated. I just want to help.

OP posts:
Missunreasonable · 27/07/2014 08:03

You should have said something but not by facebook. Written words don't always come across as intended.
I think your parents are right to put the children's needs before any concerns about your sister as the children are the priority. Could you as an auntie help out your parents a bit more. Could you have attended the leavers assembly with your niece?

It might have been better if you had approached it in terms of (face to face): I know you have been really busy with the charity so is there anything I can do to help? Would you like me to take dd2 to her assembly for you? I'm happy to have them all for a sleepover on Saturday to give you a rest as it must be quite tiring trying to do everything yourself.

I'm guessing she enjoys the charity work because it is something that she wants to do rather than has to do and after being with her children for years in end without partner support she probably loves the difference. Her priorities are wrong but your approach could have been better.

therenter · 27/07/2014 08:14

Mis- I was at the leavers ceremony with my dd. I didn't know until I realised that she wasn't there that she wasn't planning on coming. But I think it would have been worse for my niece to attend and her mother not be there. I have four children myself and I actually work in the school as a T.A so I can't have her youngest whilst she is at the charity.
And without meaning to sound rude - she has made no efforts at all with her children, what is it teaching her if other people keep stepping in to do her job for her. The children will get further and further alienated from their mum. It isn't my time that they want- it is their mother's.

OP posts:
AnotherGirlsParadise · 27/07/2014 08:15

She probably enjoys the praise and sense of self righteousness she gets from doing charity work. Sorry if that sounds cynical, but I know a lot of seriously lousy parents who are in 'caring' professions and are very vocal about charity work etc.

Her poor kids. You did nothing wrong in approaching your sister - I'm glad someone did!

Missunreasonable · 27/07/2014 08:15

If it is that bad you need to phone social services and ask them to investigate.

therenter · 27/07/2014 08:16

Yes- I know I was silly in my approach but as I said last time her vileness to me really hurt- she was just nasty and I didn't want to be on the recieving end of that again. I really do not like confrontation at all.

OP posts:
HumphreyCobbler · 27/07/2014 08:17

It is all about her, isn't it? Her response to your comment is very telling. You are clearly in the right here but your sister sounds very removed from reality and as such was probably never going to take on board any criticism. I see that you had to try though. Maybe her children are better off with your parents? I am glad they have you as well.

Missunreasonable · 27/07/2014 08:19

Or you could speak to the person responsible for child protection at school. Emotional harm is a social services issue.

therenter · 27/07/2014 08:22

Social services have been involved before. Her dd2 was saying that her mum had hurt her. She ended up being put in my care for the night. But my muk and my sister came down so hard on my niece they threatened that ss would take her away and she would never see them again (poor girl was distraught, I had to do a lot of calming down). So she backed down. For what it is worth I actually don't think my sis did hurt my niece. I think it was a cry for attention because she so desperately lacks it. My sis didn't see any of this as her fault tho and kept saying that my niece obviously wasn't right in the head (her words). Shame is my mum said the same thing. I fell out with my mum then as I told her she wasn't looking at the bigger picture as to why my niece would make something up like that.
My mum would back my sister up I'm sure which again would make me a loan voice. And I think by now my niece is so afraid of being taken away that she wouldn't say anything.

OP posts:
FunkyBoldRibena · 27/07/2014 08:24

I'd probably go the whole hog and tell her that there was no point in doing any charity work if she is failing her children by not being there for them and if that means her not talking to me it's worth the chance as what actually meters is her kids, not that she deserves them. I'd also tell her that her behaviour is showing in her kids already having mental health issues and if she actually gives a shit, now would be the time to make changes before they are too late. Charity begins at home.

nachohousekeeper · 27/07/2014 08:25

What a difficult situation. I grew up with a Mother who didn't have much time for me but put on a great show as a perfect parent by joining committees and the PTA.

I am very lucky to have had a caring and loving Dad but I think I know how your DNS will be feeling and at 43 I am only just starting to understand that my DMs behaviour was about her and not me. Half a lifetime of anxiety and self doubt has been no fun at all and the very young me would have loved someone like you to speak up.

Even if your sister never changes, please continue to be there for her DCs. It will help then to know that people care about them.

FunkyBoldRibena · 27/07/2014 08:25

Matters, not meters.

therenter · 27/07/2014 08:25

I am apologising once again for my awful spelling (waiting to be picked up on it lol). I am typing fast and not checking through as I have to go out in a bit. Really sorry, it should be readable tho.

OP posts:
WanderingAway · 27/07/2014 08:27

Why should the OP spend more time with her nieces/nephews? That will just give their mum more opportunities to spend even less time with her children. I think what you did was the right thing OP. Your sister needs a blunt telling off because she is hurting her children.

therenter · 27/07/2014 08:28

Funky- those are my feelings entirely. If you fail your children what good is it being successfull in anything else. It means nothing.

OP posts:
Imbroglio · 27/07/2014 08:32

Sadly it sounds as if your parents are part of the problem, which leaves you out on a limb.

SwearySwearyQuiteContrary · 27/07/2014 08:39

No, you did the right thing and I hope that it makes your DSIS pause for thought.

goshhhhhh · 27/07/2014 08:41

I think this is a really difficult situation & not sure what to say. You are doing your best & she isn't. Have you thought about contacting social services yourself?

PomeralLights · 27/07/2014 08:47

Saying 'they don't want me they want their mum' isn't helpful IMO. Their mum can't or won't care about them as much as they need. You can wish every night that that will change but it's not likely to, is it? If you don't give the children an aunty they can be close to, they will just be more isolated and hurt. I think you're holding out for some big revelation that will suddenly make her a good mum - sounds like your parents have accepted that is never going to happen.

Of course everyone should be good to their kids and there should be no child abuse. But sometimes they're not, and there is.

I grew up with a similar mum who did charity work and self-congratulated a lot but ignored and disliked me. I know there were people who thought the situation wasn't right but I was, ultimately, 'somebody else's problem' - my mums. The withdrawal of those people did nothing to change my mum, of course not, I just grew up mentally ill and lonely as hell. What is more important to you really OP - the health of your DNs or being able to sit in judgement on your sister? I'm not saying you have to get more involved and help them, but if you're going to choose to emotionally withdraw from her family, at least be honest with yourself about why.

therenter · 27/07/2014 09:00

Pom- you are right. I am just so angry that she won't give her love and time to these children, really angry. I am desperate to find a way to make her change. After all she chose to have 4 children- why have them if u r not prepared to meet there emotional needs. I just wish I could say something to make her sit up and make the right choices for her children.
And as I have said I have been there for her chidren- picking them up from school having them for sleepovers (not all at the same time). I helped her when she moved into her council place making the garden nice for them. Having her daughter when SS were involved etc...
But all that is by the by now as she wont have anything to do with me. And I am not prepared to apologise for looking out for the interests of her children.

OP posts:
PomeralLights · 27/07/2014 09:17

therenter yes, it is so hard when you are angry. I am still so angry at my mum and it makes it impossible to have a proper conversation with her about my upbringing.

I don't know much about SS but others have said this could be taken seriously by them so you could try reporting your concerns? If she won't let you be around her kids there's not a lot you can do, agreed, but if she's as selfish as you say, if you make it clear you're still happy to see the kids she might continue to rely on you for childcare. Only if you want to though, I'm not saying these kids are your responsibility coz they are not. It's such a sucky situation. I told ppl I was hit too at primary age because I thought that was the only way I'd get away. Didn't work for me either :(

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