to think two months notice is a bit shit?

[Miren]

Just heard from a friend that her landlord has given her two months notice to vacate the property she has been renting for the last 5 years. It's come completely out of the blue, and she is so upset. She has 3 children, all in the local school, so, unless she moves schools, she has to find - a scarce - rental in the area, pack up and move, in 8 weeks. She took on the property on the understanding that it was long term enough to see the kids through first school. So sad for her.

OK. The LL owns the property. The tenant and LL agree the notice period in a legally binding contract. If the tenant breaches the terms of the contract by overstaying, the LL can then take them to court to have them evicted ( tenant does not take LL to court ).

This buys some time for the tenant, but naturally upsets the LL. So it should be avoided.

I'm trying to sell a house which I've inherited a share of. We've served a notice which runs out at the end of August. The tenant is paying approx 80% of the market rent. He will only allow viewings between 9.30 and 2.30 Mon-Fri and has cancelled the last three viewings. This week is inconvenient for viewings although I now have at least 2 people who want to view. I know I'll have to take him to court although I don't want to. He thinks the council will house his family if we take him to court and so it looks as if I'll have to take it off the market until around sept and then start again. I'm trying to empathise, but the tenants making it as difficult as possible. So, someone tell me how I can do this in an amicable way, cos I just can't see it.

Chatted to her again this morning. She was mortified at the thought of going to court so you can all calm down about that

It seems she has tried to negotiate, but it's through an agency and they are keeping her in the dark about why and have asked her not to contact the landlord. sounds odd to me....

She has the right in law to her landlord's contact details and if I were her I would be pushing it. Letting agents work to make profit, not in the interests of either landlord or tenant. Cash is their agenda.

OP if I were her, I'd definitely be contacting the landlord. The letting agents I'm dealing with are unprofessional and unscrupulous. I wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them. They could be telling the landlord anything about the tenant if it suits their purposes.

Yes she could make the landlord go to court and wait for eviction, which could drag it on for another six months or so. However she will then not get a reference and any court and baliffs costs will be awarded against her. She would also run the risk of her Landlord adding her to The Landlord Referencing Service's database of 'bad tenants', making future renting difficult.

Yes it would have been nice for the landlord to give her more notice, but we really can't know the circumstances and something may have suddenly come up meaning that, for example, the landlord needs to sell the property.

X-post re court. Oops

My goodness, some of the suggestions on here! If you overstay your notice period you are essentially squatting, assuming residency in something that does not belong to you. For all we know the landlord may not be making money on the rental and is it risk of losing it, therefore why the letting agency is 'keeping her in the dark'. Two months isn't a short period as such, a month to find, a month to move.

The two month's notice is the landlord informing your friend that they intend to apply to court to have the tenancy ended, not that she must leave in two month's time.

Only two parties can bring a tenancy to an end once the fixed-term has ended: either the tenant or a court. When was the last time your friend signed a fixed-term AST and when did that expire?

A Section 21 Notice would be invalid if your friend's deposit has not been registered or the prescribed information not supplied when it was.

Courts are extremely busy and the landlord won't be able to apply for a court date until the two months has expired. S/he may not get a court-date for the possession order for some time, maybe several months. Even the court granting possession cannot compel your friend to leave if she hasn't arranged alternative accommodation for her family. The next step would be for the landlord to have court-appointed bailiffs to come and remove her and the children. Bailiffs are busy too so that could take a couple of months as well. She could still be there by November

YABU.

she's been there 5 years. She was hoping for a "long let" and this is exactly what she got. Odds are given the current market, LL wants to sell.

I've been on both sides of this. I am a LL but we rent as well. First property LL decided to sell after a year, second property was over a funeral home and I guess our 2 yr old at the time was "too loud" and we were given notice after 6 months. Yes we were pissed off, and your friend may be too, but nothing we could do. We are now in a rent to own deal and due to buy the property next year. If we can't get a mortgage now that this stupid government is making it more difficult getting a mortgage is hard then we will be out again and probably will have to pay more to rent.

In our "ll world", we rent to council tenants and privately. DH is currently having to shell out £1000 for the "long term" tenants who destroyed his property and left all their shit in addition to not paying rent. In another we have to deal with "council suddenly not paying" delays. We do get an income but after all the messing around it's more hassle than it's worth.

"It seems she has tried to negotiate, but it's through an agency and they are keeping her in the dark about why and have asked her not to contact the landlord. Sounds odd to me."

Unfortunately, it isn't odd at all. The agent has persuaded the landlord that they can achieve a much higher rent from a new tenant. Agent gets to charge prospective new tenants referencing fees, which they get a mark-up on, plus they will charge the landlord several hundred pounds for a "tenant-finding" fee.

It is not in the agent's interests to have long-term reliable tenants in a property and them "only" getting to charge 10% of the rent collected. Tenant-churning earns them a great deal while costing tenants and landlord substantial amounts of money.

Of course your friend can contact the landlord! Sod what the agent says.

The landlord's address should be on the tenancy agreement under the bit which mentions "for the serving of notices". If that's care-of the agent then your friend can find the details on the official Land Registry site for four quid.

I think after 5 years a, hey sorry we are going to have to sell/move into the house, so jut wanted to warn you that I sadly will be giving you 2 months notice soon. Thank you for being such a good tenant

Or something similar, I think that's possibly what the op may have meant, just a bit of politeness because regardless of how the rental laws work, it's still her home!

I don't understand why she needs to know why from the landlord? He has decided to serve notice and that's that.

"If you overstay your notice period you are essentially squatting, assuming residency in something that does not belong to you."

Absolute cobblers!

flipflops - that's not really what I meant, but thanks anyway

I would hate to be an LL.

If you overstay your notice period you are essentially squatting, assuming residency in something that does not belong to you.

It never did "belong" to the tenant, though, so this makes no sense

"I'm trying to sell a house which I've inherited a share of. We've served a notice which runs out at the end of August. The tenant is paying approx 80% of the market rent. He will only allow viewings between 9.30 and 2.30 Mon-Fri and has cancelled the last three viewings. This week is inconvenient for viewings although I now have at least 2 people who want to view. I know I'll have to take him to court although I don't want to. He thinks the council will house his family if we take him to court and so it looks as if I'll have to take it off the market until around sept and then start again. I'm trying to empathise, but the tenants making it as difficult as possible. So, someone tell me how I can do this in an amicable way, cos I just can't see it."

"whattodonext2* it's absolute madness to expect to be able to market a property with tenants in situ. Apply to the court for possession and only have viewings arranged once it's vacant. Collecting rent and trying to sell the place at the same time is having your cake and eating it, too.

Your tenants are not obliged to agree to any viewings whatsoever. This is their HOME and they are entitled to quiet enjoyment while they have a tenancy in the property.

some interesting drip feeding here about this case.

as noted, her next move is to demand the landlord's contact details - tell the agency that she is legally entitled to them, as she is. Then speak to the landlord.

the agency saying 'don't talk to the landlord' sounds well fishy. The letting agency business is unregulated (THIS is where the goverment should take their first action, rather than joining the landlord haters; regulate these agencies who really do prey on the vulnerable). Any crook can set up as a letting agency and quite a few do.

whattodo - you will indeed have to stop the viewings if the tenant won't allow them. If he doesn't go at the end of August then you need to start proceedings to get him out legally. This will cost a bit and could take four months, so if you don't have legal expenses cover, get it now before you have a problem.

Your tenants are not obliged to agree to any viewings whatsoever. This is their HOME and they are entitled to quiet enjoyment while they have a tenancy in the property.

There is a clause in the tenancy agreements which allows the LL to inspect and arrange viewings in the last two months of the tenancy.

If the executors hadn't been lied to by the letting agents when my dad passed away, we'd have had a vacant property by now, but unfortunately we believed what we were told.

The agent has persuaded the landlord that they can achieve a much higher rent from a new tenant.

I was under the impression that if a tenant hasnt breached the contract a LL cannot serve notice/evict just to get new tenants who will pay more. I thought they would have to inform tenant of new rent price and tenant either accepts or gives notice.

There is a clause in the tenancy agreements which allows the LL to inspect and arrange viewings in the last two months of the tenancy.

There might be a clause in the. Tenancy agreement but it doesnt stand up in court. The tenant is under no obligation to permit any access. Regardless of notice given or what the tenancy agreement says.

"I was under the impression that if a tenant hasn't breached the contract a LL cannot serve notice/evict just to get new tenants who will pay more. I thought they would have to inform tenant of new rent price and tenant either accepts or gives notice"

Your impression is incorrect. A landlord can serve notice for any reason they like or no reason at all. Please bear in mind there is an agent in this particular instance. It is NOT in an agent's interest just to negotiate a rent increase when they could earn hundreds of pounds by getting shot of the current tenants and finding new ones.

If anyone does think its a good idea to stay on and force the LL to go to court, you do realise you won't then get a reference for your next property?

That will effectively make it very difficult for you to find another LL who will let you step foot in their property.

Thanks bitter very unsettling to hear this.