to think tax credits office just pluck random figures out of thin air when deciding how much to give claimants.

[littleSpud]

dh has had to take a pay cut of 9k, taking us from 32k to 23k. we have 3 dcs I am a sahm at the moment

when he was on 32k, we got about 60 a week in tax credits. I did an online calculation which said if he was on 23k we would get about 130 a week

we got our award letter today and we are only getting 70 a week based on his new income!

how the fuck can we take an almost 10k income drop and only get another ten quid a week. it does not make any sense. we are going to be skint and its shit. I genuinely think they just choose random figures as I spoke to my friend who's dp is on 22k (so tiny bit less than dh) and for 3 dc they get 150 !

my youngest dc 4 months old so before the daily mail readers start kicking off I will be looking for work soon. sooner than I thought by looks of it

Also, will your DP still be working same hours? Isn't there something about 24 hours now?

littleSpud

imagine ringing them up and saying just cancel it all, we don't need your damn money

Due to a big promotion, i managed to do this last year - it was one of the best moments of my entire life. That gut wrenching fear of having been paid the wrong amount has gone. Horrible process it really is!

Air that sounds awful - makes no sense at all does it? Imagine if you said "ah balls to it, I'm moving to Spain, social services can look after DH" - how much would THAT cost?

aw bless you anairofhope

that sounds awful and doesn't sound right

I for one will not kick you when you are down x

starry yeah dh still working same hours (about 45 a week)

and omg yeah bet that was amazing to tell them to stick it

Yep like watching our children watch their Dad get worse over time and die before they are 20 isnt bad enough we have to deal with people benefit bashing us, worry about money and sanctions and have no life at all.

I try not to think about it or I just cry.

oh god airof

(((((hugs))))) to you and your family

Oh Air I don't know how you cope you're doing a wonderful job in an extremely difficult situation

I said exactly what your title says to my mom when this years renewal came through.

At our lowest earning point we got 30per month and then they said they had overpaid us 40 at the end of the year, now that we are going into our highest earning year yet (3,000 more than the earning we were on when they gave us the 30per month), we have been awarded 190per month.

I actually dread telling them a change in circumstances because everytime a change happens where i think it should mean increase tax credits they decrease them. Then when i think there should be a drop they damn well increase them. I think its just a random number generator - no real calculations!

Plus if you query it you just get "computer says its right" end of.

Op ring them up ask for an in year calculations they ignore first 2.5k reduction so should base you figures as if you were on 25.5k though tbh if you have just done your renewal £70 a week sounds correct for 3 dc on 25.5 k sorry.

YANBU.

I have never really understood why they base it on previous years earning.

Surely like everything else it should be based on current circs?

I've had £120 a month taken off mine. My circumstances haven't changed.

I think they make it up.

I've never been able to get any answers as to how it's worked out.

I think it should be far more transparent.

I also dread that we're being overpaid (how would you even know?!) but literally can't eat without the current tax credits we get. My mat leave finishes in Jan, and then I'll have two kids to pay nursery for, and my wage on 2 days a week will be £300 a month short to pay for that. :S

But who knows if I'll be able to make the bills if I don't work and kids don't go to nursery? Or if I work, have a shortfall in nursery but WTC's kick in so we're ok?

And the nursery contribution bit is just peanuts!!! We get £35 a month for a £400 a month bill!! (don't get me wrong, happy for the contribution, but it doesn't pay nursery or help massively to any extent!)

Oh and can anybody else actually understand the paperwork that comes through??! You need a degree in Working Tax Credits!

They completely make it up AND they say it's your responsibility to check it is correct How the fuck are you supposed to know??

I particularly enjoy getting 5 letters with 5 different amounts on on the same day, with no explanation on how the figures are arrived at.

Very similar happened to us this time last year, I rang and queried it and they put it up a tiny bit more a week.

We've just had the final award letter and they've given us a wad of back pay and upped this years payments (by about what I thought they should have done last year) Obviously very nice to have but frustrating as we could really have done with it spread out over last year.

Anyway, hopefully you will get it eventually but that's not much help right now, I know.

when he was on 32k, we got about 60 a week in tax credits

It's a while since I've claimed, but when we were on 35k we got about 450 a year. Are you sure the 60 a week was right?

BTW, when we emigrated I called them up to cancel our claim (which by that stage was a much higher payment because I was classed as a single parent). They kept paying us for another 6 months, then they wrote to us 2 years later to ask for the money back...

They are truly useless. They actually make the IRS (US tax office) look efficient and helpful which is saying something.

I don't understand it.

If I got a massive bonus in December, so that the income I achieved in this current year was very different to the previous year, what happens then?

Would I have to pay back the money I had already been given or would I just have a different award amount from that point?

Why is it still based on previous year? Employers payroll computers now have to tell HMRC computer exactly what is paid when, so they know from one week/month to the next exactly what anyone is being paid.

"exactly what is paid when" means that on the day they pay you they have to tell HMRC what they've paid you, there is no delay.

The employers telling hmrc exactly what they have paid each employee immediately is for Universal Credit.

Tax credits do base it on this years income if you give them a predicted income for this year. They use last years as a default. However they still use last years income in the calculation of this years - the first 2,500 of an income drop doesnt count and the first 5,000? of an income increase doesnt count.

I suspect they have a dartboard with different figures on it.

When a claimant rings up, they quickly remove the picture of Ian Duncan Smith on there to reveal the random numbers underneath, throw a dark on your behalf and that's your award for that year.

littlemiss in that situation you wouldn't pay anything back. You would get a different award amount from the date of your renewal at the end of the tax year, not the date of our bonus payment - unless you rang and asked them to recalculate.

So for example, your 2013-2014 award will be worked out based on your earnings for 2012-2013. If you get a pay increase or bonus, then that will be part of your 2013-2014 earnings which will be used to calculate your 2014-2015 WTC award. They don't count the first couple of thousand but anything over that will be counted as an increase in income and your award for the next year will decrease by about £400pa for every extra£1000 in income.

In practice, it's a little more complicated because by the time you complete the renewal you are part way through the next tax year and you may have been paid at your initial rate for the first part of it so your award from that point on might be a lot lower than you were expecting.

Apparently RTI will be used for tax credits, starting from April this year, however income for tax purposes doesn't necessarily tell them how much income you have for tax credit purporses.

www.revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-do-tax-credits-work/real-time-information-and-tax-credits-/

It's because it's calculated on your income from the tax year (April to April) not your current salary.

It's a ridiculously clunky system.

It needs reform but not universal credit.