To feel so disappointed in my friend :-(

[LovelyBath]

My friend started up a business making something (don't want to say too much but all legitimate- an edible thing) from home. First she did markets, and then a bigger one, and she asked if my niece might want to help out on her stall. I did have reservations, as she (friend not niece) can be a bit well, disorganised and spur of the moment, type person. So I left it, but then sis in law (niece's mum) called and asked if niece could help on a Christmas stall, (I had mentioned that she might need some help in passing) I explained about the nature of the friends unpredictability but the mum said it would be good for niece's confidence etc. It all seemed to go well. Niece said (is late teens) was getting paid £10 an hour but the stall was odd long hours over Christmas and outside, so thought that seemed reasonable.

So, the business seemed to take off a bit and they started doing food markets all over the place, in London, for example and got taken on to make stock for a high end London shop. They ordered I think 7000 to start with and business loans taken out (2) a premises taken on (as it was commercial had to be a kitchen premises) and niece started doing more, baby minding, house cleaning, working in the shop, helping with website orders, giving samples and working in the high end shop, including getting there etc (to London, so about an hr on train). She saved my friends skin a couple of times too on times she couldn't make a fair and the niece went with the stock and ran the thing.

So, now I hear from the mum (sis in law) that her daughter has not been paid for several months and the friend is not paying her, and has had her doing loads of stuff. I don't really feel responsible as did say it maybe wasn't a good idea to start with. But I didn't think the friend would take advantage THIS badly. Wonder what to do, if anything. How can she not have the money (which apparently is what she is saying). She keeps taking neice to bank machine and then has 'forgot her card' or 'forgot her PIN'. I feel sorry for the niece who I've known since a child, well she is family too...

PS This 'friend' is a mum friend at school, to make things worse.

Someone needs to remind your friend - and your dn - that it's against the law to have someone work for you and not pay them the age-appropriate minimum wage.

That's very shity. I have no idea what I would do

How late is 'late teens'?

If we're talking 16, then as her mum I would be taking her to her 'employer' and demanding her wages. After receiving them I would make sure DD would resign.

If 17/18 I would make her do this herself.

And making sure she downed tools until she was paid. Presumably that would leave your friend in trouble?

Was she on or off her books?

That is unbelievably shit behaviour. Of course YANBU to be disappointed in your friend and I really think you need to have this out with her.

I find it a bit odd the way you say 'the neice' like you've disaccoitated from the whole thing
Why don't you say my niece & my sister in law

Anyway your poor niece, I'd ring friend & have a go

I don't think you should involved at all. It has nothing to do with you and you'll only make things difficult for yourself if you say something.

Let your SIL and niece sort it out, then you can remain friends with everyone.

The friend's business is obviously going down the pan if she cant afford ot pay her staff. She should be honest though instead of lying.

No wonder you feel let down. However it is really down to your niece's mum to stop her daughter working for nothing asap. Or if she is old enough to tell your friend she will no longer work for no wages. She needs to invoice her for hours worked and take it from there, although if she had no contract she probably stands little chance of seeing her money.

I would be really angry if I were you, and would probably tell her how badly she has been treating your niece, and how you will in future make sure your family and friends know they should never work for her.

Your niece is a worker for national minimum wage purposes. From the situation you've described I doubt your friend registered with HMRC as an employer, but nonetheless if your niece is over compulsory school leaving age she is entitled to national minimum wage. www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage

Anyone who believes a worker is not being paid NMW can contact the Pay and Work Rights helpline who will pass the details on for investigation. If after investigation an employer is found not to be paying NMW they will be liable to pay the outstanding amounts to the worker, a penalty (up to 100% of the outstanding amount) to HMRC and will be named in local and national press.

Depending on how good your relationship is with your friend you could consider pointing all of this out to her and giving her an opportunity to put matters right. Or you/your niece/her mum could contact the helpline www.gov.uk/pay-and-work-rights-helpline

Whatever you choose to do right now I would advise your niece starts to keep a record of the hours she works as this would be very useful if she decides to contact the helpline at a later date.

Several months? She kept working for free with no mention of payment for several months ? Who does that?

An insecure teenager who is desperate to make a good impression and gain work experience. The question should be, who takes advantage of someone like that?

Do you know how much money is involved.

Has your niece got anything in writing. It would say a lot if the friend was unwilling to put anything in writing

grocklebox you'd be surprised

Ok - here's what I would do. (Not at all an expert so Mners please point out if these are silly ideas.)

1. Advise niece to try and get evidence in writing of being owed money. (So a nice bright breezy email saying " Hi, I think Friday should be ok but I'm getting a bit worried as you now owe me £300 (£350 with Friday). Do you think you can get it to me soon?")

1. You send a text to friend saying "So sorry to hear your business is in trouble." If she replies to say "no - we are doing great" , go back with "oh - but you haven't paid dn - I assumed that meant you were going under." It may just shame her into paying if the alternative is gossip round the school yard.

1. If that doesn't work - Get dn to wait until 24 hours before she is really needed to contact her and say "Sorry I can't work for you tomorrow unless you pay me what you owe in full." The aim is long enough so she can get the cash out. Not so long that she can find a replacement.

1. Small claims court. (Using your written evidence.)

I agree with MumOf. DN to send email with details of hours worked and money owed asking for payment.

Has it been 'cash in hand'?

Your friend (employer) is required to provide a payslip with details of gross/net salary, hours worked, NI etc... HMRC really, really hate this kind of thing - just saying. Even if you are a casual worker you still get a pay slip.

Maybe something in the email along the lines of... 'need to sort out NI contributions/tax code'. The employer is required to sort out the NI contributions (via accounts which then show on the payslip for employer and employee NI) and there are hefty penalties by HMRC for non-payment.

Lesson learned for DN next time. No contract - no job.

Oh and Small Claims Court is very easy to do. Does your friend own her own house? Real ball ache for her if DN wins and you put a charge on her property.

Quite simple your sil needs to step in if niece can't stand for herself. Write a short letter to the employer stating the work she has done, what she is owed and expects payment by x date or they will take her to the small claims court

Hi thanks for your replies :-) all helpful. So, an update. I spoke to sis in law and she said niece had stopped working for her till she gets paid and then friend had called and is going to pay her. She is 19, but is her first job. Not sure if she has any sort of contract or anything like that. sis in law thinks best not to get involved as neice is sorting things out herself. She (and I) are quite impressed with neice for being quite assertive and not upset or anythig, just quietly saying she has had enough and will only return once paid.

Hoping they come up with a better plan for payment in future. i did think perhaps it would be better to make sure it is on a weeekly or two weekly basis in future as easier to keep track of. Niece is super polite and trusting ans I think just thought the friend would be keeping tracks and pay her and didn't want to ask, so it sort of built up :-(

PS Bin50 and Mumof, thanks for your help. I will suggest these in case of future problems :-)

Oh good, glad it's getting sorted