to think that people are not born equal

[Barbierella]

and life is often unfair. However, pulling people down from the top is never going to make things fair and that it will actually make things worse for everyone.

Sorry thread about a thread (private school and charitable status thread)

YANBU- Life is unfair, and it's not fair that it is unfair, but that's life!

Interesting. I'm on that thread and that's not what it's about.

What do you mean "pulling people down from the top"?

YANBU Barbierella.

It does make me sad that people aren't just happy to see children being lifted out of poverty and being able to have choices which wouldn't have been available to them otherwise. It also makes me sad that the lower end of state education is in such a state, due to govt interference more than anything, that all children can't achieve to their best ability, however, I think that, using that as an excuse to stop ALL children being able to do that, is pretty awful.

What do you mean by the lower end of education? Inner city Londonprimaries with high numbers on fsm and English as second language, are performing better than ever before

Yanbu op, people aren't born with equality of
Opportunity . But no idea what answer to that is

"It does make me sad that people aren't just happy to see children being lifted out of poverty and being able to have choices which wouldn't have been available to them otherwise"

Are we talking about private education? Would you care to say a bit more about how private education does this?

And while you're about it, a few words at out what you define as "the lower end of state education with some facts and figures ,would be good too.

To me, when someone says "people are not born equal" they're saying that they think some people are more important and valuable than other people. If that's what you mean OP then YABTU. Someone's human life is not worth any more than someone else's human life. Just because someone is born with privilege doesn't mean they're worth more than someone born in poverty.

But yes, life is often unfair and some people get better opportunities than others. All people are equal though.

I think that everybody is equal in value, and many people at the top are very very content with the status quo and to carry on shitting on the plebs because inequality is just there so its ok.

I think yabu to think that people are not ok to just accept this.

There is nothing inherently better about baby prince George than any other baby, in fact the massive rich poor divide is sickening

Yanbu op, people aren't born with equality of
Opportunity . But no idea what answer to that is

No I do not mean people are born better than others but they are not born equal.

Some have more opportunity, some have better brains, some have financially richer parents, some have emotionally richer parents etc etc.

The reason this is relevant to the other thread is that it has been pointed out several times that not allowing charitable status to private schoolls would not mean extra money for state schools it would mean they would close and have to legally sell their assets.

The point that non private school students would immediately lose out because the charitable school lend their equipment, time and facilities to state funded school has been completely missed.

BUT people still want them to lose their charitable status.

Private schools are charities?? How the fuck??

"pulling people down from the top is never going to make things fair and that it will actually make things worse for everyone."

I don't get what you mean by this. The thread was about whether private schools should have charity status. So we,re talking about the value of that tax break and whether its better to let the schools have it to do what they want with or whether it would be better to have it as part of the funds from general taxation.

Its a legitimate question surely. And I don't see how it would amount to "pulling people down from the top"

People are not born with equal opportunity. The solution to level the fairness is not to disallow people to get the best education but to help those who do not have access to the best education.

This is not always about money. It is mainly about parental input.

I would say the richest person is a person born not into money but a child born into a family that values education.

Getting rid of private school's (as many posters on the thread seem to advocate) does not help those with families who do not value education.

dashoflime

Because if the schools lost their charitable status they would cease to exist. They would be required to sell their assets because they don't belong to the school but the charity. So the extra tax would not be paid. Charitable school do not make a profit.

Not all private school have charitable status, those private schools which are not charitable do not get this tax exemption.

www.jags.org.uk/community/community/

One of the posters linked this but it has not been discussed.

"The point that non private school students would immediately lose out because the charitable school lend their equipment, time and facilities to state funded school has been completely missed."

Ah OK, I think I've got you now.
My issue with that is that the schools get to decide how to dish out their largesse. They do it on their own terms and get to spend money on things that also benefit their own organisation (eg: bursuries for clever kids that will do well and make them look good)
If the value of the tax break was going to general public expenditure it would be allocated on the basis of government priority. Plus it would be under democratic control.

dashoflime

Did you read what Jags have done recently on the link above.

I would say they have done far more than dish out bursaries to clever kids for their own benefit.

"Because if the schools lost their charitable status they would cease to exist. They would be required to sell their assets because they don't belong to the school but the charity."

That sounds a bit alarmist- are you sure?

Those schools you mentioned that don't have charitable status- how do they manage it?

Dashoflime

Private schools which don't have charitable status will be profit making and therefore own their own assets.

Charitable schools are non profit making.

My point is that instead of getting upset about charitable schools getting some tax exemption why not address the bigger problem which is parents who do not value education and do not support their school or children's learning.

YANBU OP

When you say "not born equal" what do you mean?

Private school kids and state school kids should be equal in the eyes of the law. A shoplifter from St Posh's school is a much a juvenile delinquent as a shop lifter from the local comp. It would be wrong to give the private school kid a softer sentence than the state school kid. (Assuming that the two crimes are identical)

Are you suggesting that the life of a private school child is more valuable than the life of a state school child? In a hypothetical balloon debate would you consider the education and wealth of the person's family?

Children are not born with equal talents. Certainly children live in an unequal society when it comes to resources. The tax system goes someway to redress the balance.

If private schools lost their chariable status the charity would have to rethink what its role was. They might lease the land back to the profit making private school.

Some private schools do make an effort to be more outward looking. Its sad that other schools don't.