AIBU to think DH's shockingly bad spelling & grammar might hinder his career?

[williaminajetfighter]

DP works as a public sector manager and a portion of his time is spent writing documents and, of course, communicating via email.

However I am concerned about how totally awful his writing is. This is something I have really only noticed this over the last few years as he is less able to talk on the phone privately in his current job and therefore he emails me much more.

In general I'd say his spelling is dreadful with even basic words spelled incorrectly and his grammar is rubbish. He doesn't understand punctuation and mixes commas and full stops and uses colons and semi-colons incorrectly. It's not just a few errors here and there - every sentence seems jumbled and in a normal email to me I can count more than 20 errors.

I hesitate to provide a very detailed example but here is his out of office message that everyone got when he was away on hols:

I am on Paternity leave this week so will have limited acess to email during the next 5 days ., Though If it is urgent plese do not hesitat to contact me on XXXXX . Otherwsie please copy in XXXX on all emails that need action so they can be picked up .

Seriously. DP says he spellchecks and checks the grammar on his email and documents but if you don't know what's right and what's wrong it's a little hard to check properly, IFSWIM. I have also seen some of his draft presentations for new jobs and have had to correct a LOT of mistakes.

DP admits that he had a rubbish education, scraped by through school and only got a University degree as part of his army training so he probably hasn't been taught or really learned some of the principles. He isn't dyslexic nor does he have any latent SEN. I have tried to raise this with him as an area where he could probably do some 'professional development' but he says my role is to 'support him, not criticize him'

I work in an academic environment so am acutely aware of things like grammar but surely, even in an everyday office environment, people would see communication like this and think WTF or judge him? He's obviously gotten by until now but I worry it impacts on how he's seen especially by managers.

(Was going to post in Pedants Corner but they would all that YANBU -- want some general, non-partial advice!) Advice appreciated....

I can understand that email. I think as long as people understand the email and it's not client based it ok

Congratulation on your new baby.

Also please don't pull up my bad punctuation in original post as I am trying to write while breastfeeding...

Mrs - he says he's not dyslexic although back in early1970s (he's 50) i imagine there wasn't much testing. But he doesn't know how to spell words and sometimes sentence construction is a mystery. perhaps he should be tested...

YANBU. In a professional environment, correct spelling and grammar is important. I would think less of a manager who couldn't construct a sentence properly.

I was about to ask if he is dyslexic. My dad is (or at least we have long suspected he is: at 84 though we are not too concerned about a diagnosis) and would write like that, worse in fact.

YANBU to wonder about career progression, or at the very least credibility as a manager. He needs to take steps to address these problems before someone in his team rips into him, either in person like I may have tactfully suggest my HoD revisit his use of apostrophes on occasion or by means of not respecting him.

getting parts of your job wrong is bad and needs to be corrected. There is a lot of inverse snobbery about spelling and grammar. Why would he not want to take lessons to improve it? Or to find if he does have a problem.

his work will come across as careless and sloppy. Careless and sloppy people don't do well except in government and at top management.

YANBU. For every person who thinks proper spelling and grammar are 'outdated' there are many who disagree and would think less of a manager who can't write. He may do okay in a job or sector where the majority don't really care but he'll never rise high unless he can write clearly and accurately.

YANBU. How on earth did he get a job as a manager writing documents as part of his job? What if the documents have to be made public? Why doesn't he simply pay more attention to what he is writing and learn?

It does look as if he might be dyslexic.

But why doesn't he use spellchecker? Lots of those words would be easily corrected.

And yes, I would judge someone with bad grammar, punctuation and poor spelling. I might forgive the spelling (on the grounds of dyslexia) but not the rest - I would assume ignorance/badly educated.

You're not criticising though, you're trying to help him, and support him in personal development and improvement. Surely it would be easier to accept help and guidance to improve from you, than if some snarky new person in the office starts and makes a big deal of it? I'd imagine he'd be a bit embarrassed if that were to happen.

I have a friend like this, and it is difficult to get them to understand that there is no shame in admitting you need a little extra help - if anything it would gain you more respect to take the assistance and make a difference. Do you think he'd feel better, more confident in himself if he knew he was making an improvement? What about teaching your child as they grow up, and being able to help and support them too?

I'm a proper pedant about this too, but I am also a big advocate of adult literacy and promoting practical, mature and non-patronising help where is is not only needed, but wanted.

Not sure whether or not would hinder his career. I've worked under managers with shockingly bad spelling and grammar, but they did make up for it in confidence arrogance. A lot of people fly through the ranks by telling everyone how awesome they are, despite their obvious limitations. It seems to work.

However, I have absolutely no respect for people who can't construct a decent letter or email. Sorry.

Thx all for the comments. Chelsy - I have no idea how he got this far. He's a man... he can blag!! :)

But I know as a manager that I would judge other managers and think that (a) they were sloppy and (b) that they were arrogant to think that they don't need to worry about grammar as the concept is more important than the telling.

Because I work at a (old and uptight) University I am neurotic about spelling/grammar so I admit that I care more than most.

Perhaps it's time for me to run away with that handsome academic... :)

YANBU. I would be most appalled if I received an auto reply such as that. Particularly given that you say he's a manager. I am quite a pedant and my perception of the person goes down dramatically if I read something like that. I think he needs help, whether in the form of a PA who will spellcheck everything, or some classes/lessons etc.

Communication skills of all kinds (written, verbal, report writing capabilities, evidence of well-organised thinking etc) enhance the person's "package of offerings" to any employer.

If there are two people being assessed for an internal promotion for example, they will normally have to submit a written application for internal interview.

Applicant 1 has great skills on paper, but shows poor evidence of well-formed communication, lax grammar and spelling. Meanwhile Applicant 2 has similar great skills, and shows eloquence and clarity of thinking in written format, guess who will be favoured to be offered the promotion?

I don't recruit in my current role, but I do find it astonishing how young graduates and interns can let themselves down by their communication skills. Long, rambling sentences and lack of organised thinking.... OK, I'll stop right there and head over to Pedants' Corner

william I would suggest you could influence your DH to consider taking a short-term evening class in writing skills for professionals (or even get him to add it to his work-based development objectives so that they pay for the training). He could give some positive-sounding rationale spin such as "A short course in report writing course would be beneficial to help me develop and improve my communication skills".

These things are 'fix-able', it depends on your DH's motivation to improve.

I was just talking to my boss today about job applications and how we would both immediately bin anything that came through with poor spelling and punctuation. We write a lot of letters and most people we work with are wducated beyond degree level. If you are dyslexic, fair enough. But we wouldn't have given an application from him a second glance.

williamina - handsome academic??!?!?! oxymoron??! (I'm an academic too!)

I have found working in an office environment that, the higher up a person goes in their position, the worse their spelling and grammer gets.

My senior manager especially, I have to try and proof read EVERYTHING she send out, as she genuinely doesnt seem to either have a clue, or care about the way she is coming across. She types very similar to your DH, and is very intelligent and good at her job.

Sorry, I have no advice, just experience. I wouldnt dream of telling her what she's doing wrong, she'd probably eat me

I would find it very irritating. I would also assume he was a bit thick - sorry, slay me now!

My local authority is awful and is full of managers constantly being sacked for incompetence who don't have degrees relevant to their supposed area of expertise. Yes, they are always male.

How can he have the attention to detail needed for a managerial post if he can't be bothered to get his spelling and grammar not even necessarily correct, but to a standard you would expect of an adult in a managerial position? The example you give is just about comprehensible, but equally its something I wouldn't be surprised to read from a primary school child!

Maybe you should show him this thread?

YANBU. People would judge, without a doubt sadly ( and I say that as a dyslexic myself).

DH is the same, he didn't get much of an education and his spelling and grammar is awful.

He applied for a brilliant job, one he would have been fantastic at, but he showed me the application form after he'd sent it off. It was god awful, I was cringing reading it . It's blatant he didn't get it due to his appalling spelling on his application. Ho hum.

Incidentally, a close friend struggles with grammar and this was picked up in an appraisal. She's got some books and learnt the rules of it. It's like anything, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to do it if he sets his mind to it. It just sounds like he doesn't see it as a problem.

I once had a row with an academic who insisting on using the word "untilizing" (read it carefully) in a project bid. When I pointed out the error, he started to rant and rave about -sing v -zing and sending me links to online dictionaries and how dare I question his masterful command of written English. The bid was submitted with that word despite my best efforts and despite offering to submit it myself.

We weren't awarded the grant. It was a really weak bid to start with (another story) but as I was designated pm for the work, it looked like it might have been written by me. It's 4 years since this happened but I am still that there is a major funding body who thinks I am a bit thick.

When I press click on Send, it automatically spellchecks so I don't understand why that didn't work with the example you gave

YANBU to be concerned about this. As a manager I write a lot too, and read a lot of written communication from others, and poor grammar and spelling is a problem. I know that it doesn't necessarily reflect a person's ability to do their job but it does look unprofessional. Maybe he should just get a few hints from you and try to work out which are his most commonly misspelled words to work on. No shame in that!
If he was appalling at maths and it was part of his job to add up then I'd expect him to improve...