Before TFL stopped cash on the buses, they should have put in place more ways to top up!

[devilwithabluedresson]

There is a retail area where I live that is next to a dual carriageway. Very unfriendly for walkers, its a miserable walk down a noisy road with very fast cars passing you.

It is huge, probably about a mile from end to end. I walked there this morning and hoped to get home by bus. Anyway, it turned out I couldnt top up my oyster at any of the shops there. Not Morrisons, Sainsburys, M&S, nowhere. I checked my iphone and it showed the nearest top up stop to be 1 mile away in any direction! I understand you get 1 more ride home, but I wasnt sure if I had already used that and I wasn't prepared to wait 20 minutes for a bus just to find I was turfed off.

It was no biggie, I decided to walk home as I actually live about a mile away. But it did highlight some huge problems with this No Cash thing which I pondered on the walk back :

• Not everyone has iphones to check where the nearest top up stop
• Not everyone can actually walk 1 mile to the nearest top up stop
• There is no way to check your credit, or that you have used your 'last ride home' unless you have a smart phone (and know how to use it!) Not everybody does.
• If I'd had my oyster and my cashcard in the same wallet and it was lost or stolen, I would have no means to get on the bus at all.
• Someone with mobility issues could effectively get stuck at a place like this and have to hope a bus driver would take pity on them to get home. Even if they had the cash to travel!

Anyway so I was thinking how about a top up facility on the cash points in Sainsburys/Morrisons/M&S. That would be easily solve a lot of these points! AIBU?

And the "one more journey" safeguard is no good if you need two buses to get home. This is particularly the case with night buses - a time when people could be most stuck for topping up etc.

Before I cause anyone to get stranded, contactless cards only on buses at the moment, other forms of transport later this year.

You can already use contactless payment cards on buses, but later in 2014 you'll be able to use them on Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London, as well.

www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/how-to-use-it

RudDeWakening you can now top up at National Rail stations and you don't have to travel to do it. I'm zone 4 too (south east though) and that's how I do it.

Agree that this no cash system is a terrible idea and terribly marginalising. Although no surprise from Boris.

Also this keeping cards thing separate is going to be a nightmare for DH people who mightn't be as organised as some others

[watches bank account draining as a result of daily tube journeys by spouse)

Phaedra you can use a travel card on buses as well as the underground, it's all one system.

Buses are cheaper, so if you are using just buses with an oyster card the daily cap is less than the daily cap if you use the tube as well.

You used to be able to buy a one day bus pass (cheaper than a travelcard) - can you still do that?

I think you should be able to top up oyster at cash points, like you can with mobile phones.

Visitors to London can still buy a paper travel card - or if they are travelling there by train they can get the travel card on their national rail ticket (usually cheaper than buying a return to London, then a separate travel card). And it works on tubes and buses - there isn't a separate system for buses.

I agree that having to touch in at a previously designated tube station to activate online top up is the stupidest system ever, and massively unhelpful to anyone whose journey doesn't involve the tube.

The freedpm pass doesn't work before a certain time, 9.30 or 10.00am I think so people who have one and have to make an early morning journey now have to have an oyster card as well, there is no option to just pay.

Bryonyc I don't like and never use buses.

Guess you lot are still hungrily in favour of keeping cheques alive then? Despite the fact they are hugely expensive and open to fraud? Cos, you know, there's this one elderly woman down the street from me who likes to send her great niece a cheque for £3.60 every Christmas?

Times change. Things move on.

As a visitor if you don't want to keep the oyster at the end of your trip you hand it back at a station and get your £5 back.

You can too up online, at tubes, national rail stations and loads of newsagents.

All this 'you don't know what's on the card' yes you do. Every time you tap onto a bus it displays your new balance.

The thing that I would like changed on busses is to do an interchange function. So for example if your journey involves two busses you only get charged for one ride just like on the tube network. Not sure how that could really work tho.

I'm not convinced this is convenient for tourists or. For tourists the simplest option is a card usable for all public transport which expires by a time not when money runs out so you know exactly when it runs out.

Think of Amsterdam for example you buy an electronic card for 1,3,5 ,7 days on arrival and v that's it.

Not strictly true whois. On the tube yes it shows you. Definitely not on my local zone 3/4/5 buses

Children under 12 travel free on buses/ tubes anyway

Really most banks do have contactless cards, Lloyds have had for at least 5 years, and most others do. You can request one if yours still hasn't run out.

It really is far easier. You only need to top up online once and scan at one tube station for it to be valid all the time. Then you can just use buses as much or little as you like. It needs to be £8 min as that is what gets you from say zone 1 to 6. Which is obv more expensive than tourists who stay in 1-2. You will want that min if you want to get to and from the airports for example.

Can use on buses/ tube/ overground so huge area

Many buses in zone one have never been able to buy a ticket on bus anyway and have to buy at ticket machine at stop, undying only coins not notes or card which is a bigger pain to most surely? Family of 4 would need £10+ in coins for one journey. Who carries that in coins?

Oyster cheaper. Usually half the price ie cash £2.80 per ride, oyster £1.60. So after few rides you have already saved the £5 card cost

Cheques can still be very useful. I don't use my cheque book very often these days, but there remain times when it is the best method personally. And it is a clear winner in the grant-giving charity I worked for.

Central London buses have been cash-free for months now. Tourists (who are more likely to use central London buses than suburban ones) are already managing (with Oyster or travel card).

The "problem" group is London teens, as child fares can only be accessed by Zip or travelcard. If Zip is lost, until now, the child needed to blag a couple of quid to board the bus home. Now they need minimum of £15 to get an adult Oyster and top up the minimum. All children, anywhere, can lose their bus pass. But is there anywhere else where the only alternative payment is so expensive?

There are a lot of Luddites on this thread. Times move on. Oyster cards have existed for a good ten years - they are not a new concept.

ignore my post whois just got on the bus and they do.. how have I never noticed before!

Is the minimum top up £10?! That does seem crazy.

Oh but I do support no cash on buses, sorry.

I've used London buses for about 15 years and I'm not sure I've ever paid cash it was always the worst way to do it. I quite liked those little books of saver tickets, you could hand them out to visitors.

"Many buses in zone one have never been able to buy a ticket on bus anyway"

That's a bit of an overstatement. I'll google for exact start of cashless routes, but it was only a couple of years ago, and not necessarily even for the whole of zone 1.

Sashh- freedom pars work on London buses anytime:www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedompass/whenwhere/buses.htm

I really can't see the issues people say well happen here. There was a consultation about it and I don't think many people objected.

I think London Transport is far better than other parts off the country. I have had to pay exact fare in cash (into a box) in other places. A pain when you have not done the journey before and so don't know (and it isn't online) how much it will be.

The difference between cash fares and oyster rates meant that people on a strict budget were using oysters before the change anyway.

Children trave

My DS travels to school by bus. He has a zip Oyster for the - free - journey to school and back. He also uses it on the train when he comes back from games, so I've got auto top up set. All well and good there - all bases covered.

He also has a fiver in his school bag as emergency money in case he loses his oyster. That will get him home on the bus or train. Because, you know, children do sometimes lose school possessions (do come over to the "Y7" threads sometime and marvel at what can be lost!) Contingency plans are a good thing, as I keep telling DS.

So now I think I'm going to have to get a second oyster with a fiver's worth of credit on it to keep apart from his usual oyster instead of emergency cash. Because, you know what - those cheery London bus drivers can't be relied on to let a child in school uniform who has lost his oyster on to the bus to do his FREE journey home if he doesn't have the zip oyster to prove he is entitled to the free'ness.

I still use cheques for school related things - lunch money, school trips, music lessons etc.

It's a single form entry primary and isn't geared up for online payments like dd1's secondary school. They don't like parents paying by cash because they don't want large amounts of cash on the premises, for security reasons.

Yes, I have auto top up set up on ds's zip oyster - it links in to my bank account.

Can I buy a visitor Oyster card at a station or do I have to do it online before I travel
The link above only shows buying online.
It's £2.99 to deliver plus £3 for the card.

I would prefer to collect it myself or get my DH to get one for me as he is in London most days.

"those cheery London bus drivers can't be relied on to let a child in school uniform who has lost his oyster on to the bus to do his FREE journey home if he doesn't have the zip oyster to prove he is entitled to the free-ness"

Correct. They are absolutely barred for doing that because stripping of Zip (and concessionary travel it brings) is a specified penalty for antisocial behaviour on public transport.