to be utterly incensed that the gap between the very richest people and everyone else in society is getting wider and wider?

[Mintyy]

They are rich. Why can't it stop there?

Why do they have to go from being multi millionaires to billionaires to multi billionaires?

I wouldn't find it so hard to swallow if the opportunity to earn more was open to everyone, but it most definitely is not.

The fact that the gap between the richest and the poorest in our country is widening enormously really sickens me to the back teeth.

[bette06]

YANBU and I don't know how we change that - although I think the starting point is to be aware of it and stop fighting among ourselves. As Iggly said, the focus seems to be on getting the (relatively) poor to fight among themselves to take the focus off the mega-rich.

Today, it was the public sector workers. Forget which politician it was but one of them was on the news today and within his short sound bite got in at least twice that public sector workers were inconveniencing the "hard working families" and that the "hard working families" were having to make alternative childcare arrangements caused by this other group - Cos obviously teaching, fire fighting, street cleaning etc aren't hard work! Then you get the people in the vox pops saying 'well, I've got a really crap job, where I'm overworked, underpaid, will probably drop dead before I can get my pension so why shouldn't they?'. And this is why I despair of things ever improving..

[TucsonGirl]

"Is it something like the 5 richest people in the world own more money than the rest of the world put together? "
I'm almost certain that's not true. It'd mean a massive gap between the wealth of the fifth richest person and the sixth richest person which as far as I know, isn't the case.

[settingsitting]

There is a campaign about all this. But I will have to have a root around to find it.
I hope that the poster who linked it last time this was discussed about 2 months ago, will link again.

[morethanpotatoprints]

But aren't the people moaning about the rich just as greedy.
Why does it matter that there are people that a really rich.
Multi millionaire or billionaire its the same thing.
I wouldn't want their money and the responsibility that comes from having so much. So I don't care really, they aren't harming me, I hardly know they exist.

[Fram]

Well Edam- I believe there should be a flat-rate tax system, with a high personal allowance, so that people on low incomes aren't even in the taxation system anyway. I mean- it's a ridiculous waste of money to take tax off a person, then give them back money in form of tax credits/benefits.

A person who cannot afford a personal pension will get (well, for now... ) a state pension anyway. However, I do not personally agree with being able to put 100% value of one's income away in a pension fund in a year. That is tax avoidance, and whilst legal, is still morally wrong, but I believe a flat-rate tax system would encourage more people earning at higher income levels to pay what they owe rather than seek avoidant behaviour.

High earners get nothing back from the state at present- they have been marginalised, and so have become more likely to avoid tax paying where possible (I can[t think of the proper word- where one is alienated, so one does not buy into a system and it's beliefs... sorry, am braindead)

Once they start charging for nhs at point os use there really will be nothing left that higher rate tax payers receive from the state, yet we're contributing ~50% of income in tax. (tax rate plus NI)

[settingsitting]

I think that the wealth used to trickle down greenbananas.
But everything is now so global that is goes abroad or was never really here in the first place, or goes into individuals' pockets who mainly live abroad.

Reminds me of football teams actually. When this country tries to make up its very own football team it is woeful.

[TucsonGirl]

There's no point campaigning against it unless you have a viable solution. And no, taxing the rich at 95% and combating poverty by dishing out benefits isn't viable at all in the long term. I honestly don't think there is a solution, just short term fixes that will only make things a little easier for a little while.

[ThatBloodyWoman]

Things will never change unless they're made to change.

I think it'll take a catastrophic economic collapse for those at the top to relinquish their grip.

They won't do it willingly.Why would they?

[SevenZarkSeven]

Countries with a smaller gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" are much more stable, secure and happier.

So for that alone YANBU.

[settingsitting]

morethan, that is alarmingly naive.
Multi millionaire or billionaire is not the same thing. Where do you think they got the ten times extra income from???

They will be harming you. And they most certainly are harming other people.
Or perhaps they are not harming you because your husband is making bespoke stuff for them?

[TucsonGirl]

You would never win an election with flat tax on your manifesto. It makes complete and utter sense but you'd just get people saying "why should I pay the same rate as a fat cat". Everyone wants everyone richer than them to pay more tax, because they see themselves as being "the norm" and everyone with more as being "greedy bastards, why do they need all that money?" etc etc.

[TucsonGirl]

"Countries with a smaller gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" are much more stable, secure and happier."

OR, countries that are more stable, secure and happier, have a smaller gap between the "haves" and the "have nots".

Once you start sticking guns in the "haves" faces to take their money and put it in the hands of the "have nots", you don't generally tend to find you have a stable, secure and happy society anymore.

[settingsitting]

There was the campaign "we are the 99%", but I dont know if that is still going?

[Sapphire387]

People seem to have accepted food banks as a normality! It is shameful that people in this supposedly wealthy country cannot afford to eat.

I am tired of divide-and-rule. I was on strike today. Those people who say things can be worse in the private sector - well, we should be campaigning to raise standards for everyone, not have a race to the bottom.

We need to build more social housing to start to combat our housing crisis. We also need to regulate private rents as they used to be when people had secure tenancies. This will stop taxpayers' money subsidising high rents and effectively lining the pockets of private landlords.

Gosh I feel better now!

[springbabydays]

Thing is, the gap will only ever get wider if pay increases continue to be given as percentages. I've never heard of a company giving everyone the same ACTUAL increase. All getting the same percentage helps the high earners a lot more than it helps those at the bottom.

No one ever seems to mention this though.

[TucsonGirl]

But companies are run by people. As long as people see things as being "bosses" and "us", things will never change. No company is ever going to pay an employee more than they have to, and why on earth should they? Do you pay more for a good or service than you have to? No? So why double standards. It's things that everyone does that makes the country what it is, there is no vast conspiracy to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

[edamsavestheday]

Equally, Tuscon, when you allow the greedy to gobble an ever larger slice of the pie, you end up with injustice and a very unhappy, unstable society.

As that US billionaire guy who has just written the article about the pitchforks said,* it is in the interest of the rich to avoid inequalities becoming too extreme. Extreme inequality breeds misery which eventually breeds anger and violence. The rich need a stable society as much as anyone else. They need education, a legal system, hospitals and schools as much as anyone else - even if they go private, they rely on doctors who were trained by the state, and workers who were educated by the state.

*I've forgotten his name, but he was the first non-family investor in Amazon.

Worth noting, the evidence is that escalating executive pay is actually negatively related to performance. Fat pay packets bear no relation to company performance - in fact they damage it, if you analyse pay packages and company results.

[doziedoozie]

We need more spiritualism so that we can be happy with very little, I mean once you have a London mansion and several cars what do you do with the rest??? Are you happy???

Thank goodness we all age and wither and die, it's equal in the end.

[edamsavestheday]

Tuscon, they pay executives far more than they have to and far more than is justified by any objective standard. It's a cosy cartel with execs sitting as non-execs on other board voting for their peers' pay - you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. And never mind the actual shareholders ie people who have managed to put a few pounds into a pension (most pensions will pay out pathetic amounts).

[settingsitting]

Except dozie, that those super rich pass it on to others in such quantity that it perpetuates. Not to mention the love of money that they pass on too.

[settingsitting]

No company is ever goingto pay an employee more than they have to, and why on earth should they?

um, humanity?
Are you part of the problem?

[Calypoppy]

YABU to be incensed. If they have loads of spare cash, they or their children, are likely to want to spend it. Come up with something that appeals to their wallet.

[settingsitting]

Do you pay more for a good or service than you have to? No?

Of course we do. Oil and power such as electric and gas spring to mind.

[Mintyy]

I'm just stepping over TucsonGirl here as her arguments belong in the sixth form.

It is not good for society for a very small minority to not only earn a great deal more than anyone else through their own hard work and industry, but also through tax loopholes and clever accounting. Once they get into higher rates of pay the bonuses they get from higher interest, tax breaks and tax loopholes are unknown to all the normal plebs milling around on the shop floor.

And many of these entrepreneurs and business owners are not paying their employees (middle ranking and below) enough anyway as witnessed by the reliance on tax credits by people who actually earn quite a lot more than average wages.

Philip Green, boss of BHS, worth 3.3 billion. If he gave a billion of that away to his staff, that would be a nice bonus for them wouldn't it? And he'd still be worth 2.3 billion, so hardly sacrificing anything. A totally unnoticeable blip in his budget which could not possibly make any material difference to the life he leads ...

[Mintyy]

TucsonGirl, have you ever heard of the French Revolution or the Russian Revolution?