to be getting hot and bothered about the Vit D push?

[stinkingbishop]

I am prepared to be corrected but, having been hassled yet again by the HV about giving the twins Vit D because of the oft cited 'rise in Rickets', and saying, again, that they had a good diet, including oily fish, and play outside, and again being made to feel like I am stubborn/neglectful, I am getting rather worked up.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons we all have different coloured skin is because we have evolved to be able to absorb the optimum amount of Vit D from the sun (or rather for the sun to catalyse our absorption). Those in very sunny climes have darker skin so they don't overload; us peely wallies are that way because we have such brief windows. Interestingly, it's why Inuits have darker skin than, say, Scandinavians, because they eat so much fish. Very clever, Nature.

Vit D deficiency is caused by a mismatch between your current environment and what you evolved for. So someone whose ancestors lived in the Congo and is now in Stornoway really needs to eat a lot of herring. It's compounded by inner city living eg not having a garden, being inside most of the time. And also strikes some Asian populations because of vegetarian diets and processed flours used in eg chapatis, and because of a culture of covering up, especially girls, and staying at home.

I can't find anything online which shows the incidence of Rickets amongst caucasian children in Britain who play outside regularly (15 mins a day) and have a good diet. Is there anything? Have there been cases? Where should I be looking?

If it genuinely is a problem, I will calm down. But at the moment I just wonder to what extent this national, indiscriminatory push is motivated by the Government's desire not to be seen as racially profiling (but we SHOULD profile for some conditions, because your ethnicity does correlate with various issues and potential issues) and/or because they're using some research funded by whoever it is manufactures the supplements (I have no evidence of this because again I can't find anything).

So, do I calm down, or do I fire something off to whoever is in charge of briefing Health Visitors? It just seems yet another thing to beat nervous, unsure new Mums with. For the vast majority of whom, if I'm correct, this is a complete non-issue.

[LisaMed]

A doctor told me that north of a certain line in the UK you couldn't get enough vit D from the sun for all your needs. The sunlight wasn't strong enough.

[cardamomginger]

It's not just rickets. As other posters have pointed out it's MS. Vit D is very important for the immune system as well.

[RiverTam]

my boss has rickets. The nurse said she had the lowest amount of vitamin D she had ever seen in a white person. It is absolutely not a laugh. She can sleep for up to 18 hours day at the weekend, and her hands are frequently strapped up and she can hardly hold a pen, and is obviously in pain.

I live in an area where the majority population is black, so we have a big push on vit D and rickets (and TB too, all babies are offered the BCG) - we're not black but I just too the vitamins, why not?

[HaLOL]

Re sunscreen, I have rosacea and have to wear factor 50 on my face and neck for a lot of the year. Always wear factor 15 on my face. We lived in the tropics for a bit and you'd think that would be good for vit D production, but actually it was too hot to spend any meaningful time outside.

A paramedic friend told me they are putting vit D supplements in the flour used for the breads eaten by women who wear Niqabs. Makes sense I guess.

[Deux]

I'm another one who went to the GP with a range of symptoms and was diagnosed with an extreme Vit D deficiency.

At first my GP thought I had depression as I ticked all the boxes. But I was sure I wasn't. I wonder how many other people dxd with depression are actually Vit D deficient?

You can have your Vit D tested by post through an NHS lab.

www.vitamindtest.org.uk. It's a blood spot test.

A good source of general information I found when I was dxd is www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/

[Idontseeanyicegiants]

Excellent thread which has given me much to think about. My lot spend most of their free time outside and it's quite easy to assume that they're getting the Vit D they need that way. I only ever used factor 50 when they're babies, the older 2 are using factor 20 and the toddler factor 30. I may well change it to a lower SPF and heirs vigilant with hats as they're prone to sun stroke.
DS is the one I get a little paranoid about as he plays cricket twice a week - 40 overs on a hot day can take it's toll..
Will look into supplements I think.

[HaLOL]

OOI those who are on prescribed Vit D supplements, what is the dosage? Mine are 20,000 IU.

[andsmile]

Im on vit d 4 x per day for 3 months as weas very low.

Feel like a new women

Ive got the drops for DD too she is 2.5

[RevoltingPeasant]

I don't think not using sunscreen is the answer. My sister and I are both quite pale with lots of freckles and some moles and I have been told by a consultant dermatologist never to go outside without some protection.

That might be overzealous, but when we were kids, the rule was 20-30 minutes outside with no sunscreen, and then to have some on. I think that is sensible.

Skin cancer is no joke. I'm 34 and I've never lived in a tropical country or used sun beds or anything like that. I've had 3 surgeries for suspected cancerous moles.

Personally, I'd much rather give my DC vitamins than leave them without sunscreen and put them through that!

[HaLOL]

I agree revolting. We are all so pale we are almost blue. I haven't tried to get a tan for about 20 years now. I prefer to stay pale and interesting lol. My dad had skin cancer at 34 on his head. My uncle died from it at 72. They had removed a mole on his shoulder 10 years before. Didn't get it all. It spread internally. He collapsed and died at his GP surgery 2 weeks after diagnosis.

As a kid I burnt so badly many times. Once I had huge blisters all over my back. I was about 8, in Swanage! I remember how painful it was to try to sleep.

I do try to strike a balance with the kids, but will slap some factor 30 on them after 10 to 15 minutes in the sun. DH always wears a cap. I will wear a sun hat if abroad etc. Having said that the kids did get burnt on their backs in California earlier this year. Went in the water before the cream had properly sunk in. I didn't realise you had to allow an hour. Kept reapplying it too. We felt awful - may as well have given them a cigarette, felt like.

[HaLOL]

When we were late teens my mate used to mix up cooking oil and vinegar as she swore it helped get a tan. She stank though!!

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

Yawn.
Some ppl make such a fuss.
Like there's some national conspiracy involving vitamin supplements.
It reminds me of the mmr thing. (medical reasons for not having mmr notwithstanding) Just have the mmr? Oh no, we're too special, we need separate vaccines, or not to have it or testing in between jabs. All based on no empirical evidence, simply a bunch of ppl being difficult. And so we've had a couple of outbreaks of measles and probably loads of hcp time wasted on ppl who have to be awkward about stuff.
It's so simple. Put sunscreen on to protect against skin cancer (which is on the rise)
Then take vitamin d supplement to prevent vit d deficiency (which is on the rise)
Or don't, just be at risk of both problems becuase you're allergic to taking advice from a GP or HV.

[LadyRabbit]

I'm not completely convinced by Vit supplements either OP. However, my DH has for as long as I've known him, been religious about Vit D supplements. The bugger is never ill - I mean NEVER. I can think of only one occasion in a decade where he actually had to cancel something because of illness.

So maybe it works.

I do realise that my evidence is completely unscientific, however.

[WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal]

I've stubbonly refused to give dd vitamins too - I try to make sure it's in her food nut hated the idea of giving an exclusively breastfed baby vitamin drops.

Now that she's older and doing the fussy toddler eating I'm not totally against the idea of giving her vitamins, i even get the healthy start vouchers to get free vitamins every 8 weeks, however there is nowhere local to me that I can pick them up so I haven't bothered. oh well - lets just eat vit d in our food shall we?

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

You're missing the point whybehpy. You can't obtain all the vitamin d you need (and more importantly, neither can your children) from food. Even from a healthy diet rich in foods containing vitamin d.

[WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal]

food and sunlight, no? I just think an early dependency on vitamin tablets is unhealthy

[squoosh]

A 'dependency'? It's not like getting your kid hooked on codeine you know.

[apermanentheadache]

You can't be dependant on vitamin tablets. They're not crack

Vit D is the only supplement I give my kids because the evidence is pretty compelling.

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

I don't how to argue with that sort of deluded thinking, which is why I couldn't be a HV. how do you reason with that sort of misunderstanding of basic biology? "dependency on vitamins"

It sounds exactly like the idiotic "overloading the immune system" that ppl spouted re: mmr. Really, MN is interesting. Everyone has a double first from a top RG university but still this kind of idea exists.

[0pheliaBalls]

DD has always eaten well and gets a lot more sunlight than most teenagers, I'd say. Yet she still had/has recurring vitamin Day deficiency - last time she was tested the doctor said it was the lowest she'd ever seen.

It's not 'dependency' on vitamin supplements, it's preventing what can be a really debilitating illness. As far as I'm concerned it's a no-brainer. You wouldn't think twice about using, say, sunscreen to protect their health, so what's the difference?

Never thought I'd live to see the day that parents were frightened of vitamins, ffs.

[0pheliaBalls]

*vitamin D (effing phone)

[beccajoh]

An EBF baby died recently because his/her mother was chronically vit D deficient. Your body can't magic up the nutrients it doesn't have.

[RocknRollNerd]

Kerist, some posters make it sound like Vit D is a gateway drug to crack...

The trouble is the sort of people who flap about something as preposterous as dependency on VitD are often also the sort of people who will never let fortified spread, cereals or powdered milk pass their kids lips as well. Due to other risks guidance is generally to only have a couple of portions of oily fish a week so it's pretty damn hard to be absolutely certain you are getting enough Vit D in your diet if you're relying on sardines, eggs and sunshine in the UK...hence Vit D being a recommended supplement. Why is this so hard to understand?

[mrsmuffintop]

My mixed-race 9 yo (me fluoro white, DH very dark) was referred to a specialist recently because she has a viral skin infection (molloscum contagiosum) which was getting worse and worse despite 6 months of treatment prescribed by the GP.

It turned out, to my shock, that she was so vitamin D deficient that her immune system was compromised and she couldn't fight the virus. We live in Australia, so it had never occurred to me.

The professor of dermatology explained to me basically what others have said - that most people can't get enough Vitamin D from sunlight. This goes double for darker skinned people. DD is now on a double dose of supplements and getting better.

[WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal]

It is very hard for me to understand - I've always read that supplements are a poor substitute for vitamins you gain through food (and sun) and that supplements are generally given away because the assumption is that people won't feed their children properly or spend all their time indoors.

I'm not trying to be obtuse - I had a great conversation with my doctor about pregnancy multivits and how most of them weren't needed.

How do you make a child take a supplement anyway???