to be getting hot and bothered about the Vit D push?

[stinkingbishop]

I am prepared to be corrected but, having been hassled yet again by the HV about giving the twins Vit D because of the oft cited 'rise in Rickets', and saying, again, that they had a good diet, including oily fish, and play outside, and again being made to feel like I am stubborn/neglectful, I am getting rather worked up.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons we all have different coloured skin is because we have evolved to be able to absorb the optimum amount of Vit D from the sun (or rather for the sun to catalyse our absorption). Those in very sunny climes have darker skin so they don't overload; us peely wallies are that way because we have such brief windows. Interestingly, it's why Inuits have darker skin than, say, Scandinavians, because they eat so much fish. Very clever, Nature.

Vit D deficiency is caused by a mismatch between your current environment and what you evolved for. So someone whose ancestors lived in the Congo and is now in Stornoway really needs to eat a lot of herring. It's compounded by inner city living eg not having a garden, being inside most of the time. And also strikes some Asian populations because of vegetarian diets and processed flours used in eg chapatis, and because of a culture of covering up, especially girls, and staying at home.

I can't find anything online which shows the incidence of Rickets amongst caucasian children in Britain who play outside regularly (15 mins a day) and have a good diet. Is there anything? Have there been cases? Where should I be looking?

If it genuinely is a problem, I will calm down. But at the moment I just wonder to what extent this national, indiscriminatory push is motivated by the Government's desire not to be seen as racially profiling (but we SHOULD profile for some conditions, because your ethnicity does correlate with various issues and potential issues) and/or because they're using some research funded by whoever it is manufactures the supplements (I have no evidence of this because again I can't find anything).

So, do I calm down, or do I fire something off to whoever is in charge of briefing Health Visitors? It just seems yet another thing to beat nervous, unsure new Mums with. For the vast majority of whom, if I'm correct, this is a complete non-issue.

[SpeakerOut]

I take 10,000 IU a day. MIL (without MS) started the same and she said she feels better for it. I think a lot of people are deficient and don't know it.

[RedSoloCup]

I've never ever bought or used factor 50 suncream it's ridiculous, factor 30 is fine as long as applied regularly enough and we do cover heads and top half on the beach on hols.... My kids have never been burnt and still get their vit D....

[montysma1]

I was at the beach today. My children were the only children swimming in swimsuits. Actually baby was in the buff. All were wearing sun screen.
Every other child was swimming in long sleeves, long trousered suit things plus hats. Plus application of factor one million sun screen every 5 minutes.

This is Scotland. The sun only comes out for about 30mins per year, its not Australia. I think people have gone over board with the sun phobia/skin cancer stuff.

At school they are only allowed out doors in summer with coats or cardis to cover their arms. Ludicrous.

[HedgehogHairbrush]

Advice the HCPs are being given here and
here.

My understanding (and I read around it before giving my dcs supplements) is that due to the type of rays we need from the sub, living on the latitude we do means it's nigh on impossible to make enough vit d to get round the year, and it is not possible to fulfill your vit d requirements from your diet. Also, as already stated, they believe vit d deficiency to be linked to lots of other problems than the initial bone issues, though those are on the rise too.

Hack the target/at risk groups include all the people the HV sees - pregnant and breastfeeding mums and under-5s.

TBH, I feel more aggrieved that no hcp ever advised me to take them and that I may have put myself and my children at risk of deficiency as a result. I find it more odd that you are cross you are being given appropriate, evidence-based advice. You can, after all, ignore it.

[Purplefrogshoes]

I have been on high dose vitamin d3 for years at the insistence of my orthopaedic surgeon, he said patients taking d3 do so much better after surgery as well as the other benefits

[Birdsgottafly]

""Supplementation has changed my life - I'm always saying so on here. My periods are no longer painful, my skin is better, I'm sharper mentally and don't suffer from low moods so often, and I have tons more energy""

I find that interesting because I was a sun bed user and always fleet better when using "the beds".

Most people say that they do, which has always been accredited to the physiological factor, but I wonder if there has been medical benefits, also.

I'm not advocating regular use, but I would rather get a light tan pre holiday and just add to it naturally, rather than change colour quickly.

I agree with the OP that advice around health issues needs to be tailored to the individual and not just generic.

"" I find it more odd that you are cross you are being given appropriate, evidence-based advice""

Most of the advice given out by HV's etc isn't evidence based, though, because it is given out so generically.

[MooseBeTimeForSpring]

I'm in Northern Canada. Our winter is 6 months long. Yes, it can be sunny but it can also be -30 for weeks on end. No-one spends 15 minutes out in that. Our whole family takes a Vit D supplement.

Interestingly, we're not much further north than Newcastle!

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

When my HV advised me to take vit d while bf and then for my kids to have a supplement after 6mo (still bf) I was grateful someone had thought to give me that information. The explanation makes sense. I don't expect her to submit all the peer reviewed papers on the subject. It's got nothing to do with "nuance" it wasn't her idea was it, it's a govt thing.
I have better things to do than get in a twist about it and I imagine she does too.
Supplements taken, job done, on to the next thing.
Great big fuss about nothing op. YAbu.

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

It's diifficult to get tested on the NHS unless you have any specific symptoms, that's one problem - I think screening for everyone would be a good idea.

Sunburn paranoia is another issue - when the DCs are at home I don't use it till later in the day on them but feel obliged to do it most mornings before school in summer.

[ChairOfTheBored]

As others have said, it's not just rickets. There is strong evidence of links with other diseases, such as MS. We have a family history of MS, so despite walking outside everyday, with as much exposed skin as the weather and respect for fellow walkers permit, DH and I both take vitamin D and we are giving infant DC a supplement.

The way I see it, the risks of giving it are minimal, and watching someone with MS go through it! I would do all I can to prevent that for DC.

Am sure the HV and DH are offering the best guidance they can - working in public services, I know we simply don't have the resources to invent unnecessary work simply for giggles...

[ChairOfTheBored]

Sorry, some v random punctuation above. I blame the sodding iPad

[ikeaismylocal]

The problem I have with routine vitamin d testing is that surely it would be better to give children vitamin d drops ( painless, easy, just put tge drops in yogurt or drip them directly into their mouth) rather than subjecting them to a painful blood test on a regular basis ( I'd imagine you'd need a blood test at least once a year to be sure levels were not low).

The cost of routine testing would be huge compared to the cost of giving drops, as I said previously my ds receives free vitamin d drops but you can buy the same ones in the chemist, I give him tge drops every day and he is on his 3rd bottle ( he's 18 months old) the drops cost around 3 pounds from the chemists, so under 10 pounds for an entire year, I just don't understand why parents wouldn't want to give their dc vitamin d.

[Rainydayblues]

Yabu.

Agree that the obvious deficiencies like rickets are not the only problem. Lack of Vitamin D is becoming increasing linked to all sorts of illnesses and gps and consultants are still not routinely testing for Vit d - so your deficiency might be picked up - if you're lucky, I believe lots of people are suffering low level deficiency, not enough for rickets but enough to affect their quality of life, general aches and pains, low energy levels and depression - but GPs are more likely to prescribe anti depressants than test for Vit D deficiency.

[antimatter]

I think doctors who are recommending vitamin supplements weighted up chances of overdosing.
Only overdosing can be harmful.

[echt]

I live Australia and tale vitamin D supplement on my doctor's advice. She said that basically unless you worked outside, you'd probably be deficient. In addition, in Australia, the heat goes from OK to let's go and sit inside, very quickly indeed, so sitting around in the sun isn't what you do.

[Rainydayblues]

Risk and chance of overdosing has been greatly exaggerated - another medical "fact" that they got wrong. Looking at the balance of probability and risk regarding Vit D levels - deficiency is the bigger problem.

[HaLOL]

I'm 44, pale and a little freckly, and last year was diagnosed with a Vit D deficiency. I was actually exhausted a lot of the time. I now have some bonzo supplements from the doc and have to go back in a while to retest levels.

[daisychicken]

I've been told we can't overdose on Vit D as we just excrete what we don't need - is that not true?

[StillWishihadabs]

Up to OP I previously thought as you did, I went to a conference in September last year and from what I learnt there decided to take and give the dcs vitamin D September through to may this last winter. Do you know what ? they have had 100 % attendance and haven't succumbed to the cough and colds going around the school. I haven't had a cold all winter. Vitamin isn't just about rickets, there are many more subtle signs of mild deficiency. I agree that your twins may not be at risk of rickets but they may do better with some supplementation.

[Rainydayblues]

No you can overdose on very, very high amounts of Vit D supplements, however quite a few of the supplements have such pitifully poor amounts of VitD overdosing is almost impossible, in fact raising your levels is almost impossible too. You can't OD on sun acquired Vit D.

[StillWishihadabs]

Sorry rainy days that's just not true (that you can't raise levels with supplements). I have seen it done (in hospital outpatients with OTC supplements).

[nilbyname]

can someone recommend a good vit d3 supplement for my kids and me please

This is all really interesting, I have calmed down on the sun cream etc but both my kids are blonde/blue eyes. However they don't burn with factor 15 and a hat on.

[7Days]

This thread has been a real eye opener.

I was another who was a bit complacent about giving them, but will be more on the ball now. Never even heard of the possible link with auto immune conditions

[Thenapoleonofcrime]

The biggest thing I've stopped doing is using suncream when the children are at school. They are only out for 20 min a time, they haven't got burned or even slightly pink at all (white skin which browns eventually). I think there are a few people who are right to slather on the sunscreen at all opportunities- if your child has very white skin like mine, I did burn a lot as a child, but in general the sunscreen application is out of all proportion to the risk.

I do in the holidays- or I just get them to come in between 11-2 or don't sit on the beach during that time. They can then run around all morning and late afternoon/evening getting loads of vit D.

I have also recently started using vit D drops which are like a spray in the mouth- they are brill, children like the minty taste and are cheap- on Amazon. We all use them now- I wish I'd supplemented when they were little, one of mine has a problem relating to Vit D and it's a bit depressing to think we could have been doing something about it and are now playing catch up.

[Thenapoleonofcrime]

On holiday in hot countries or in the middle of the day here, though I do use sunscreen, but in general I've stopped applying it routinely before they leave the house except on say school sports day when I know they will be outside.