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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

strike

145 replies

jamdonut · 10/07/2014 08:13

I am a TA.I am not striking today,because I don't believe it will achieve anything,although I do believe in the right to strike. But what really annoys me is the people on the news saying "why don't they strike in non- educational time?". Well....because then it wouldn't be a strike,would it? Strikes are meant to cause disruption so they are embarrassing to employers/government,precisely because it causes inconvenience to others,thus drawing attention to their cause.

Or am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:

shockinglybadteacher · 12/07/2014 12:34

Possum you are a sensitive flower. How often have your fee-fees been hurt in this thread alone?

I don't know how local government unions organise because I do not work in local government. I would point out however that local government workers are plagued by scabs brought in on temp contracts to cover for them. It would be quite interesting to know if the people bringing bins in are union members or temps, and if temps, if their company held them off on Thursday.

As for unions/government, no (come the revolution!) but the argument is just as daft. I can't say "I didn't vote for the Tories or Lib Dems so I can do whatever the hell I want as the rules no longer apply to me". Likewise, I can't say "Well I joined a union but I didn't vote for a strike so if I'm called out, I just won't do it. By the way, about my personal case..."

ilovesooty · 12/07/2014 12:36

Yes, fingers crossed for the FBU. I hope that something is achieved now the government has shown a willingness to come to the table.

PossumPoo · 12/07/2014 12:39

Actually not at all shocking as I dont give an actual fuck what a union rep thought of me at all

But you go on with your cool retorts, you're really convincing (fee fee is a new one, make that up all on your own? )

VivaLeBeaver · 12/07/2014 12:47

Wait till the midwives strike at the beginning of next year like its looking will happen. Hopefully that'll make the govt sit up and take notice. I imagine a day with not many midwives will be more disruptive than a day with some school closures.

ilovesooty · 12/07/2014 12:49

Sometimes I wonder why people use strike throughs just to say what they want to say anyway.

To return to an earlier point I too am disgusted that as many unions were on strike teachers were made the focus of it all. Easy targets I suppose.

I still struggle with my feelings from the last strike like this. The people who work across our corridor in similar roles largely belong to unions, unlike us. I went out on strike as a Unison member. They're in Unite across the corridor and several said they weren't prepared to lose a day's pay. This while they were receiving union support while undergoing redundancy negotiations. I've never been able to view those people who used union support to keep their jobs but ignored the strike with any respect since.

PossumPoo · 12/07/2014 12:57

Do you sooty the tantalising thoughts you must have

midwives striking.

ok I'm leaving this thread because instead of trying to see this from both sides I'm actually convinced now that nope, it's the strikers that are scabs.

ilovesooty · 12/07/2014 13:22

Oh you were trying to see it from both sides Possum?

That's come as a surprise to me, I'm afraid.

gordyslovesheep · 12/07/2014 13:38

wow so 'scab' as a term to describe strike breakers ...but you are just using it to insult people who disagree with you - that's not very grown up

Like you Sooty I work with people who didn't strike despite Unison negotiating our whole downsizing, protecting pay and conditions for 2 years and negotiating decent redundancy packages ...and they are still demanding our rep act on their behalf - but refuse to support the union

if I was the rep I'd tell them to fuck off

shockinglybadteacher · 12/07/2014 15:58

LOL Possum, I'm devastated that someone like you doesn't approve of me, let me tell ya, devastated. I can hardly type for the tears flooding my eyes.

gordy we kind of can tell people to fuck off. I would not take any personal cases from people I have seen crossing the picket line, and if I know that someone has scabbed and I have their case, I drop the case at that point. Luckily I've only had to do it once - I was trying to sort a backdated pay claim for a member - and I saw her cross. She was actually quite ashamed of herself for crossing and accepted that I could no longer represent her. There is a mechanism whereby scabs can be represented by the union but no-one's falling over themselves to do it.

Tangerinefairy · 12/07/2014 17:23

echt, I did not "jump ship" when it suited me I changed because I felt that striking was affecting the children I teach too greatly. On this recent strike day in particular several colleagues (who are in the striking union) felt the same. They are anything but fainthearted, they are hard working, devoted professionals who did not want to let their kids down, losing a days pay did not even come into the discussion.

If you are honestly telling me that you would cancel a long awaited and paid for trip at the last minute in order to strike I would think very little of you and am very glad no one I work with is like that. I can just see it now "sorry kids and parents, we know most of you are on worse pay than we are and some of you can't find a job and you have been looking forward to this trip for months but I'm not coming to work so it's off".

As I said earlier on in the thread, and you confirmed, it seems as though some people believe that you are gutless and hypocritical if you don't strike even if you do not belong to a union that supports the strike. Even changing to a different, non striking union is not enough.

auldspinster · 12/07/2014 18:43

Can only speak for my own union but we've tried to negotiate but the gov won't speak to us.

I don't get paid for being a rep, a couple of colleagues in my branch have seen their mental health suffer and marriages fail due to the stress of personal cases and increased workload combined with the cuts in facility time that allow us to represent members.

We don't take strike action lightly, it's very much a last resort.

shockinglybadteacher · 12/07/2014 19:05

Tangerine you are changing to a different, non-striking union to avoid striking. Your colleagues who actually are striking for jobs, pay and pensions are not going to respect you. You can't demand that people who are sacrificing think well of you, who aren't sacrificing at all.

Since the anti-union laws, we do get a number of people who resign the day before the strike and then sign up again the day after. Quite often, they ask for representation in their personal cases. It will be done, but I do not respect them or think well of them. Why should I?

shockinglybadteacher · 12/07/2014 19:22

I actually think this is a peculiarly 21st century phenomenon, and it's quite intriguing. You have to respec' everyone, even if they do something wrong, even if they cross a picket line which you're on, because respec'.

Tangerine and Possum are separately asking for respect for making choices which other people disagree with. Hate strikes? Join a non-striking union, but everyone should nod and smile at you for not striking. Hate unions? Workers in a union should still doff their caps to you.

That is not, actually, how the real world works.

Oodlives · 12/07/2014 19:28

Those who say they can't afford to strike , doesn't your union have a hardship fund? I've had loads of emails this week about Unisons.

shockinglybadteacher · 12/07/2014 19:36

PCS has a hardship fund...

echt · 12/07/2014 19:41

Tangerine you asked if I would strike if it meant cancelling a long- prepared for trip. Have you read my posts? Yes, I would, because being a member of a union means doing what the union has decided. As for changing to a non-striking union, do it and good luck to you, but I do not respect such people, they just hang on the coat tails of people doing the hard work.

Tangerinefairy · 12/07/2014 20:25

I'm not asking you to nod and smile at me for not striking. I'm just saying that not everyone agrees with it but according to you we all HAVE to otherwise we are weak and selfish. The only possible reason we could object to it is because we don't want to lose a days pay. That is not why I object at all and neither is it the reason my colleagues object. We are professionals who care about the

Echt, if you are really saying there are no circumstances under which you wouldn't strike no matter how badly that might impact on the children you support and you don't see that there could be a conflict there at all then I don't have any respect for you either.

Tangerinefairy · 12/07/2014 20:27

Sorry, there is an unfinished sentence there. You get the idea. We are never going to agree. I actually do respect the work that you do Shocking despite you having no understanding of where I'm coming from.

GiantIsopod · 12/07/2014 20:53

I'm mixed about striking. DH did strike as he felt it was more harmful to not support your union, that showing solidarity and showing that you won't take things sitting down is a good thing. BUT, imo, striking is very damaging to teachers (how often have you achieved something? Apart from making the public resentful of you?) and I know a good few of my friends, who's schools were closed, were resentful- many of them have been made redundant, one is the foster parent of a kid who really struggled without routine and, as there was a trip on strike day it had taken weeks to build up to it happening, he had a massive meltdown and struggled to go into school on Friday. Many parents are in a financially worse off position, in the private sector. Striking is a necessary tool, but the way it's being used doesn't seem to do anything for teachers. Unions seem to be giving mixed messages about what they want.

ThatBloodyWoman · 12/07/2014 20:59

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on striking.
Union members can vote on strike action.

But if your Union says "all out",it's "all out".

Dh's workplace had 100% adherence, no scabbing.

It was good to see.

echt · 12/07/2014 21:58

Tangerine, what apocalyptic scenario are you imagining would occur to children I teach as a consequence of strike action? I do not deny conflict, and have put my money where my mouth is on this matter. I would not take strike action to gain the respect of others, it's a matter of principle.

Not sure what you intend by saying I don't understand where you're coming from, as if that were some kind of failure of imagination on my part, I just don't agree with your opinion.

shockinglybadteacher · 13/07/2014 05:16

Tangerine you might have to lose all respect for me :) because there are no circumstances where I would scab and cross a picket line if my union called me out. None.

It's quite interesting - I've been on a lot of picket lines over the years and there are two ways scabs react. They're really angry at people who are out on strike, or really angry at themselves. I've lost count of the number of people who have told me "I hate myself for doing this" or in one case "You couldn't be more disgusted at me than I am". They sometimes cry as well. Crossing a picket line is an emotive thing and I tell them not to cross - we have a hardship fund and we won't see their weans starve :D but they've usually made up their mind to do it.

It's not about political allegiance. People of all politics and none won't cross a line because, well, you just don't cross a picket line. If I scabbed, I would lose all respect I had for myself. I would know exactly how much I could be bought for - my day's wage - and I would go to my grave knowing I was a scab. There are some things which are more important than money.

shockinglybadteacher · 13/07/2014 05:39

GiantIsopod I'd also like to address your points here

BUT, imo, striking is very damaging to teachers (how often have you achieved something? Apart from making the public resentful of you?) and I know a good few of my friends, who's schools were closed, were resentful- many of them have been made redundant, one is the foster parent of a kid who really struggled without routine and, as there was a trip on strike day it had taken weeks to build up to it happening, he had a massive meltdown and struggled to go into school on Friday. Many parents are in a financially worse off position, in the private sector.

I'm not a teacher any more and I'm not speaking for the NUT even in a personal capacity :D. That in mind...

Striking isn't about making people like you or catering to people who suffer without routine. It's a tool and a tactic which is used when negotiations break down or when management refuse to negotiate in the first place.

This isn't something we do for the fun of it or to piss people off because we can. Talking about financially worse off positions, as I've said before, DWP staff are often on the same benefits people they deal with are on. I'm on 18K as a full time worker, I started working in the public sector on 11K full time. I've been made redundant before as well and struggled to make rent. The public sector don't live golden lives of ease compared to the private sector, that's a Daily Mail lie.

As for what we achieve - management hate it when we strike. Proper hate it. Nothing that they expect underlings to do gets done. Striking does achieve things - for a start it shows that we are dedicated and will strike when attacked. For all the people who are saying "but unions are soooo messy and annoying and naughty and I have a friend with a child who was really upset when teachers went on strike" what would you do if unions disappeared then and do you really think you'd be better off?

echt · 13/07/2014 09:39