To worry about DCs picking up very strong regional accent?

[honourinoneeye]

DH has been looking for a job near his elderly father for a while, and secured one last month. The in-laws live in an area that is pretty much synonymous with deprivation and poverty - their home and immediate area (street, estate) is lovely but the area as a whole is pretty dire.

I have been concerned about the effects living somewhere like this may have on children but one thing in particular I'm a bit worried about is the accent. It's very, very thick - even "well spoken" people have what I and most others would consider to be a broad accent.

At any rate, this week we have been in a premier inn to buy a house and find schools and get things sorted for September. My twins will be going into year 2 and their teacher 'mocked' my dd's accent - not nastily, but nonetheless it was there. I also noticed the TA spoke with a strong accent with numerous grammatical errors - "you was staying in a hotel?" complete with dropped 'h's'

I was a teacher pre DC and have worked in some very deprived schools but such an accent would undoubtedly hold people back, I really can't explain how strong it is! I don't mean I'm judging people for it (I do for the bad grammar) but just the same, I can't pretend I'd be happy about my children picking up such a thick accent and I do feel it would be detrimental to their future.

So - any ways around this?

Meh, think this might have been true 20 years ago but not now.

We are brummies with mild accents, the kids developed stronger twangs to fit in at school but that's fine, we all want to fit in.

Anyway dh works in the heart of London based in a very successful lawers office.

His colleagues include a lady with a Liverpool accent you could cut with a knife, a Scott and a northerner. All very successful lawyers.

A teacher mocking an accent is a bit strange, would feel that's very unprofessional but I honestly don't think accents hold people back these days. Bad grammar is different.

Listen to radio 5 live. Every accent under the sun.

Fwiw the very worst accent I think is the posh put in in TOWIE.

DH went from a deprived bit of Merseyside to Oxford University and dropped most of the Scouse accent within a term because it just made life easier not having to deal with the 'hilarious' remarks He now works in a very senior professional role in a conservative sector in London, dominated by RP voices and people called Harry and Jolyon, and though you can hear the odd flat vowel that makes his northern origins obvious it's absolutely the case that he would not have risen as high as he has with a broad Liverpool accent.

Those who say 'anyone who judges someone on their accent isn't worth bothering with' are idealistic but wildly naive. If their children are ambitious, teaching them that it's right to refuse on principle to switch between registers won't do them any favours.

If you correct the local accent (as my mum did with my Brissle one) you should be prepared for your kids to suffer from fake accent syndrome were you unconsciously mimic the accent of the person you are talking to. This has led to a few awkward moments for me.

Overall though I'm glad my mum did it. I don't know anyone professionally who speaks like I did as a kid. A few gentile northern accents and lots of Scottish tho. You've had a very hard time on here for voicing reasonable concerns, about a big move which must be scary, but people love to get offended on MN!

Don't send your kuds to that school, it will be very hard to be mocked like that by a teacher and the kids will pick up on it.

I love accents and regional variations in dialect. Love it!

And I really do not think that regional accents hold anyone back. You will hear all accents in courts, business meetings, academic settings etc etc.

A lot of people, like myself, will be able to move from one sort of speaking to another. So I can do the deep sentence mangling of my birth area, missing letter and words, using incomprehensible slang. I can also do my dialect-lite, where my accent remains strong but is perfectly acceptable in all settings.

Th eporblem arises for those who simply can't do both. Who cannot switch from the sentence mangling. It will hold them back.

That said, there are a (happily dying) number of people who still consider accents an indicator of lack of intelligence or understanding. This is one of the reasons I'm (reluctantly) glad my DC are both very very posh.

I wouldn't be happy about the teacher mocking odour children's current accent but tbh 'you was' is very common in a lot of the country now due to the influence of TV shows like TOWIE etc.

It is something that I think about because my DS is growing up in a very different part of the country to where both me and DH grew up and will have a different accent. The unrefined version isn't one I want him to have particularly as an adult but I know he'll speak like that at school to fit in. But at home he is corrected so he does know how to speak with less of an accent or with more accurate grammar when needed.

Kids do adapt well. My nephew who's 11 says 'Barth' and 'carstle' at school but switches to 'bath' and 'castle' at home because that's how his parents say that sound. Mine will probably do the same when he's older.

Surely your focus here should be on the inappropriate behaviour of the teacher toward your dc, rather than whether they pick up the Wigan accent and how to minimise it? I don't think I'd be keen to send my dc to the school you mention.

Having a regional accent or using the local dialect doesn't mean people are ignorant of 'correct' grammar/syntax, btw ... I lived in the NE for a long time and gradually and unconsciously began to use 'diven't' - but I do know it's 'didn't'!!!

Agree with violet and other PPs that your concerns about the accent may be simply a manifestation of general anxiety about the move

For goodness sake. Are there no lawyers, politicians or doctors where you have moved to? Presumably quite a few of those will have grown up in the area. Or do they get them to come up from the home counties, because every knows you should only get a prescription/vote for/take legal advice from someone with an RP accent.

I really thought this attitude had gone out with the ark. And the sociolinguistic reality is that people 'accommodate' their speech depending on who they're with which is actually quite a complex social skill that we all do, often unconsciously.

I would be far more concerned about a teacher criticising a child's accent.Hardly indicative of an inclusive classroom that values diversity, which after all is what we all want for our children. Isn't it?

Just to reiterate, despite going through school from 4 to 18 in Wigan, both my dc went to University and both have professions where their language matters. Dd is an English teacher in Cheshire!

I spent years trying to rid myself of my Mancunian accent. My DCs don't have it because we don't live up North anymore, they never have. I hate the part of myself that is proud of their RP accents........BUT as I get older I feel proud of my accent, the rough edges have been smoothed out but it's still there and when I listen to someone like Guy Garvey from Elbow, or Lauren Laverne....Ant and Dec even, I love their soft Northern lilt and it makes me happy.

I could be talking a right load of old shite though.

I feel for you OP. Outing self here. DH is Yorkshire man (but not strong accent as lived away for many years). We lived there for 15 years, so when we moved (Midlands) DD and DS had strong Yorkshire accents and local children to me had "posher" accent.

Whilst children commented on their accents DD used it to her advantage when being bullied (being newby with accent at secondary school). She is generally gentle but has Yorkshire way of speaking ie tad blunt. So when threatened she turned round and said "I'm from Yorkshire - we're tough up North - do you really want to mess with me" - whilst inwardly quaking - the bullies left her alone. Inicidently her name starts with H which her Yorkshire grandparents never use which gives her a totally different name.

Fast forward 11 years - son now speaks with local accent but went to college in local city (9 miles away) and is perceived to have "posh" accent.

I only lived in Yorkshire for 15 years (midland born and bred) yet still people spot my "northern" accent.

Children are resilient and accent won't matter - teachers on the other hand should not mock - the only time I can recall teachers discussing my children's accents (not DD2 as born where we now live) is when DSs teacher also from Yorkshire (and supports same football team) so chatted about the joys of being from Yorkshire - ironically he is now DD2s teacher so again chatted to her about Yorkshire and where he was from when she was recently going to visit grandparents.

I'm completely that anyone thinks that the OP is not being anything but unreasonable.

Yes, it was unreasonable for the TA to take the piss out of her DCs accent, but the whole 'not wanting to develop a regional accent in case it stops them becoming a lawyer' is bizarre.

If the OP had come on and said she didn't want to move to the area because most people were Asian for example, she would have quite rightly being told that she was completely unreasonable and racist to boot.

It's not just people that speak correctly that get into the 'right' professions. One of the country's most prominent QCs, Cherie Booth, is from Liverpool. Perhaps she doesn't speak like a 'jolly scouser' in court, but I'm sure she will or will have had a Liverpudlian accent.

I am a successful professional and have a very strong Yorkshire accent. BIL is also very succesful in the world of banking, also with a Yorkshire accent. We have plenty of local lawyers, doctors and all the other 'respectable' professions. Likewise for plenty of other areas outside the south east. As a PP said, we don't ship in folks that 'talk proper' to do the good jobs for us, we are quite capable of doing them ourselves. And I say that living in a city that is known for being one of the hotspots outside London for law and banking.

It sounds a bit like the OP is afraid of catching 'poor' as well as a regional accent. Perhaps the DCs might want to bring friends home, or visit their houses and shock, horror, they might not all be as naice and middle class as the OP .

And HTF do we pronounce bucket, if its not 'book-it'?

We only get little glimpses of information from people's posts. If a child of mine was visiting school and something a teacher and TA said seemed blunt or unfriendly, I'd certainly take note. But most parents here will look at a school more broadly. Do the children seem happy? What are the Ofsted reports like? What about the head? I am sure heads and class teachers have experience of children who are from another area, and know that they may take a while to settle in.

To be honest, I'd be wondering about what was going on in the marriage. It sounds as though having a Lancastrian husband is acceptable, but actually going back to the area he comes from and seeing more of the in-laws is not. It's understandable that settling in a new, different area and making new friends is tough. But it sounds as if the OP really, doesn't want to do it.

I don't know how to make it a video on the thread.

Agree with Ilkley - we should be teaching our children to be happy and comfortable in their own skin. This includes their accent and dialect. We should also be teaching them that other children's accents are part and parcel of who they are, and not something to be mocked. How else will we stop the stigma attached to regional accents?

I should also point out that I know many professionals who both come from Wigan and have strong Wigan accents. It hasn't held them back.

I suggested it before and I'll say it again - op, I think you're searching for any excuse to back out of the move and this one has conveniently popped up.

I also think it's good for children to grow up with a real understanding that not everyone is naice middle class. Having a spectrum of friends from different backgrounds is A Good Thing. They will be much more responsible citizens as a result, although they may become teachers, social workers or charity workers, rather than lawyers.

I'd pull up on grammar, but not accent. If the grammar stuff is right, then in all likelihood they will, chameleon-like, mute or increase the accent in different settings - but genuinely not knowing that it's not 'one of them ones' or 'she's the one what goes to my school' or whatever, is harder to sort out.

Don't move to London, OP. Your kids will undoubtedly acquire a special Urban English accent - complete with plosive Punjabi consonants and Afro-Caribbean vowels - which they can turn on at will.

I was teased for my "southern" accent when my parents moved "up north" and I started school - only "gently" and by kids not teachers, but it stung, and I made a concious effort to change my vowel sounds in particular. A teacher who mocks the children's accents should be very ashamed of themselves and is massively unprofessional - it doesn't matter which way around the accents are. That is what I would be worrying about - the likelihood for initial teasing about their current accents in a school where even teachers are mocking!

Regional accents are quite "fashionable" I'd say, as long as they are not so thick they are hard to understand. Incorrect grammar is obviously not a good thing in any context.

I would share your anxiety, though for slightly different reasons. All I can think of is continuing to model correct grammar at home, and repeating back the correct grammatical structure if the kids begin to use the wrong ones (the way you do with bilingual kids) but not worrying about them picking up the accent - they will have to, out of self defence. I would also talk specifically to the teacher about mocking their accent not being "on" if they are starting that school... its bullying, when it comes down to it - or certainly has the potential to go that way!

Forgot to add having Yorkshire accents (varying from mild to strong) has not prevented me, DH and DD1 having professional jobs within the NHS. I don't agree with that aspect of the OPs post - whilst it was fictional Maxine Peake's character in Silk had lovely accent and she was leading barrister!!

YABU. Even if your children pick up a bit of an accent and some regional dialect, with parents who use grammatically correct speech (one of whom has no clear accent) and the necessary university education to become the lawyer, banker or politician you envisage, they will never speak 'like locals'. My father was born and grew up in Salford - never been a trace of it on him (although he can put it on if he wants).

And for what's it's worth, I work in an office of three doctor/academic types, the other two being from Wigan and from Bolton.

Not being "like locals" is precisely what I would worry about - constantly being "gently" mocked for NOT having the local accent, and feeling isolated, different, and "other"... "Y'r not from 'round 'ere, are ye?" gets old fast...

I can understand why you would be upset by people making a big deal out of your dc's current accent, or pointing out how "posh" they sound.
It is a "thing" here in the North to mock children for not having the local accent, or for being "posh" or Southern.
I live back where I am from, but my accent has mainly dissolved, due to years of travelling and living down South. I can turn on my Northern accent, but generally I sound quite RP, and I get comments along the lines of "Oh, your not from round here. Actually, I am, but I don't really fit in.
It's a two pronged issue imo-the OP just doesn't like the accent (although the few people I know from Wigan just sound generically Lancashire-has the accent changed to more Manc?) which is her personal taste really, but also, if is it OK for owners of accents to mock children who don't speak the same as they do?

I moved to a place with a very different regional accent (and lots of new words) when I was 8. I got used to the teasing, took the edge off my 'funny' accent and got on with it!