to wonder whether this was normal GP behaviour?

[BombDumbell]

A few years ago, when I was just finishing up breastfeeding, and had boobs like cantaloupes (and incredibly sore), I went to the GP about a lumpy bit.
He dealt with the concern (felt like a blocked something, which would go down as my milk dried up), but then went on to demonstrate fully how I would "check myself" in the future when the swelling had gone down. It hurt, and afterwards I realised it had been entirely unnecessary - it was not why I went. So - a an extra-dutiful GP or a bit weird and pervy? The memory still makes me wince a bit.

I went with a breast lump many years ago, and the (lovely lady) GP had a proper thorough examination. I guess they need to cover their own backs too to check there aren't any other more sinister feeling lumps.

Imagine if someone came back 2 years later and said you'd missed it and you had recorded that you'd seen the patient about a breast lump?

However, means of checking shouldn't have made you feel uncomfortable OP!

Hmmm...I think the fact he carried on despite you saying it really hurt is not good and makes it a bit more suspicious. Most GPs would tread carefully around something sensitive such as breasts and the pain of being engorged. I would have complained on that basis. It put you in a difficult position where you have basically let him know you would like it to stop, but he is not stopping. It would have taken a lot more 'force' to say: "No, I want you to stop" after he's said it's important. That does sound more dodgy to me. But I am not sure what you can do now.

I think it seems unprofessional at best, pervy at worst. He should have asked if you wanted a demonstration (to get consent). I also think he should have offered you someone in there as soon as it involved exposing breasts to check. Then his third strike is not stopping and asking if he should continue when you told him it hurt.

ANYTHING which makes you feel uncomfortable is not ok. We teach children that, it applies to adults too.

There is a difference between medical touch and sexual touch, and it might be that your instincts are saying to you that his was the latter. It's ok if that the case. You have a right to feel like that and to remember it as you do. There is a chance you may objectively be wrong, and he wasn't thinking of it as anything other than a medical exam, but you still have a right to your feelings, and really I'd trust your instincts over anything else. He made you feel uncomfortable. He didn't ask your permission, there wasn't a chaperone.

In most of these situations doctors don't assault their patients, it's good to know how to check your breasts, there isn't always the need for a chaperone, blah, blah, blah. Point is, you felt uncomfortable, you can't shake that off, you have every right to feel that way. I guess the main thing you can take from it is that if a male doctor wants to do any kind of intimate exam in future you know to ask for a chaperone in case it brings up feelings for you, and just so you're sure you are safe.

An assault can be such a shock, people do freeze, so equally if you're going into a doctor in the future it might reassure you to have a think about what happens if someone is doing something you aren't comfortable with and rehearse being assertive and saying 'please stop that, I would like a chaperone' just so you get your power back in these situations. Hopefully nothing like this will happen again though.

Brilliant post lowcarb

Bomb I am sorry this has happened to you and continues to play on your mind. I don't think you should second guess your gut instinct. As lowcarb mentioned even if it was totally innocent you still have the right to feel uneasy. In your shoes I would have expected the GP to ask for my consent before they touched my body in any way. The doctors at my own surgery certainly seek consent to do routine things like blood pressure checks. I also think it was very unprofessional and unkind to continue the demonstration when you clearly stated it was painful.

I'm with lowcarb here. He should at least have asked for your permission first, at least. There is a power disparity in the doctor patient relationship that can make it particularly difficult to say no to something, especially once it's already started and is being described as medically necessary.

I've had a bit of a fright over a doctor touching my shoulder and really doubt that had it been somewhere more intimate being manually examined that I'd have had MORE capability of halting any touching that made me feel uncomfortable.

Thank you so much for understanding the unease.

I'm really not one to feel uneasy about these things, or to feel complainy about anything (particularly anything NHS - we're so lucky to have the NHS!). Since this happened, I've had to have around 5 intimate medical examinations of various sorts, most by males, and have never felt remotely uncomfortable. At various points I have declined to have a female in the room (on all other occasions I was asked) as I didn't find it at all necessary.

I don't find this a big deal really, it's just something I wonder about because at times it makes me feel inexplicably "icky". I know I did go to the GP with a breast question, and was perfectly happy to be examined (under the context of the issue I went with) by a man. It just seemed to go a bit beyond that, somehow. To be fair, the doctor in question may not have been as familiar with standard NHS procedure as most GPs - I don't know this for sure, but he didn't speak brilliant English, so he may not have been working in the UK long (just a guess, but may explain any difference in procedures from other doctors I've been examined by, or my interpretation of them).
Also (and obviously this has nothing to do with UK/otherwise training), I suppose if there was a problem it may be more to do with poor "people-skills" and nothing to do with pervyness.

Thanks again.

with my first pregnancy the GP wanted to examine my bump and asked me to remove my knickers before I got onto the examination table. I refused because I didn't see why he needed me to remove my knickers to examine my bump.

numpties, that does sound a bit unnecessary.

I didn't think it was necessary. I told him I was leaving my knickers on. He looked a bit embarrassed. I felt very uncomfortable.

You went about a suspicious lump, the gp showed you how to check so you might be less worried in future. Might even be something he is expected to do if someone comes in with queries about breast lumps. Yabu.

After having a lot of pain in one boob last year, I went for an ultrasound and an examination at our local hospital. The ultrasound was clear, and then I had a female doctor do the examination. At the end she said "You have perfect breasts, lovely to exam." I was a little but just said, "That's what my boyfriend tells me." and she got all embarrassed. I was just amused at the time but I did think she was going a bit far.

I think while the GP may have had your best interests in mind, he went about it in the wrong way.

Didn't obtain consent first, or offer a chaperone.

Carried on after you told him it hurt.

I can see why you still feel uncomfortable about it.

And for those people who are all going YABU, remember the point about medical stuff is that it should be the patient's decision whether or not to partake. Being taught to do a breast exam is important, but does not override the necessity to obtain consent. A patient has the right not to feel uncomfortable.

When I was a nurse, in the 80s, a number of medical students I knew spoke about something called 'TUBE-ing' - where TUBE stands for Totally Unnecessary Breast Examination.

Not only did this happen, but was common enough that there was an acronym for it.

I think times have changed, but there are still many doctors around who trained in the 80s, so it would not be a total surprise to me if so e (a very few) doctors still do this.

If you were uncomfortable, perhaps you should consider a complaint to the GP practice. And I am sorry that you were made to feel uncomfortable.

Sorry you have been upset by this. Its hard to tell isnt it, but its always important to listen to your inner voice imho.
I'm not sure his examination was necessary. Not in the way you describe it. It's pretty easy to tell if a bf woman has mastitis or a blocked duct. The palpation required is brief and light (if required at all tbh) and its not normal practice to demonstrate self examination on a patient (especially when she's already lumpy and painful. It wouldnt have taught you anything useful that couldn't have been described, it would obviously be painful and the usual thing now is to discuss the purpose and practice of breast awakens and being alert to changes rather than breast examination.
So, YANBU.
IMHO.

awakens good grief! Breast awareness was obviously what I meant to say. Examination is not a current trend.

Carmine - sounds like quite a nice compliment!

AmandaClarke - I really appreciate your message. You sound like you know about standard practice for these things. I think it was really so different to my other experiences with HCPs that it's sort of lodged in my mind a bit.

SDTG -

sleepy - I do agree that this was very related to what I went for, and that he probably was trying to do his job well. It just didn't seem quite right.

Anyway, thanks again to all. This has never been a major issue for me, just an occasional niggle, and I think it'll niggle less now I've had a chat about it

Whether he meant to or not, he has made you feel uncomfortable about the way he touched you and his reasons for doing so.

He absolutely should not have touched you without your permission first. Nobody should do that and actually he should have known better, as he should have training in protocol in these situations.

I also think he should have offered you the choice of having a female dr or nurse checking you. Whenever I've been in these situations I've always been asked up front if I would prefer a female to check / speak to me.

Discussing breast awareness is related to the reasons for her Initial consultation.
A ham fisted breast exam is not.
It's not appropriate.

I don't think it was nothing. I think you got TUBEd. Totally Unnecessary Brest Exam.