to think the new free school meals for all KS1 children is a ridiculous idea?

[Flexibilityiskey]

I just don't see the rational behind it, when benefits are being cut to the bone, why give free school meals to people who don't need them? Yes it may benefit the odd family but there will be loads who just don't need free meals, and at what cost? My DS's school will have to build a new kitchen as they currently don't have the facility to provide hot meals. There must be loads of schools with similar issues. Add to that the cost of feeding all the children in KS1 for each school year, the cost must run into millions. Surely the money could be better spent being targeted at those who genuinely need it or am I missing something?

Everyone's so focused on the money they will save or the poor kids who need it that they are completely missing the implications.

I think it's brilliant! My twins will get it come September and will make up a bit for the lost child benefit. We pay enough in tax, work enough, yet we seem to pay for everyone else's kids and get nothing back. Now they are talking about means testing everything from Jobseekers allowance to University for the children of anyone who basically earns a decent wage so we are going to live in a society where only the children of those on benefits who can't be bothered or the really rich will be able to do afford anything. I don't feel even a little bit guilty about my kids getting FSM.

What about those of us not getting it,losing CB,not getting help with childcare?We've contributed,a lot.

Sorry frittering money because some feel entitled when it's needed so much elsewhere is wrong.

The actual numbers of children going hungry are relatively small on a population level when you look at the numbers on fsm. The money that is being wasted on this for those that don't need it could be life changing for poorer kids,it could also go on improving educate all facilities for all.

Sorry I'd rather the money went on better meals for the poor and on the education of my children instead of the entitled who don't actually need it.

It's utterly ludicrous and if this a taster of how NC would run the country on his own thank god he hasn't got a chance.Can't believe I ever voted Libdem they seriously have no idea.

I think it's a good idea to as it will help lots of families but as with the child benefit arrangements I don't think it has been very well thought out.

My dd will be eligible for a year and yet we are a high earning family and really don't need this. My kids have a healthy packed lunch everyday and I provide balanced home cooked food in the evenings.

The school want every child who is eligible to take it up and there is even talk of them banning packed lunches for all infant children ( they will offer a panini to those children who don't want a cooked meal)

But my other child ,as a junior, will not be eligible so I will still be cooking in the evening ( as I won't be forced into paying for a school meal for him) and I will struggle to get fussy dd to eat all her veg etc at home if she has been filled up at school ( and I know she won't eat the school veg!)

The aim is to provide more healthy food to children but I honestly believe that my DDs diet will be worse as a result of this.

At the moment I can monitor her fruit and vegetable intake because uneaten fruit is left in the lunchbox and I have time at home to coax her into eating her veg. The school staff won't have time to do this and although they will offer fruit with the light lunch option I just know she won't take it.

Well presumably if the government can afford to commit to spending £12 billion every year on foreign aid, the UK must be rolling in the money which obviously means there is no problem paying for free school meals for all kids.

Again with the " it will save me money"

And "it will help other children"

Put that on te back burner for just a second.

How will this be done to a decent standard in all schools including those who don't hae kitchens?

How will schools cope with the loss of pupil premium as parents won't need to claim it?

What happens to all these support groups and exta classes PP funds to try and close the gap between FSM children and the rest.

Wht about schools who are having to supplement the cost taking money away from what should be used for books and equipment.

It will help people for 3 years, then they will still have to pay - and probably pay more in order to cover the extra costs to school paying for the infants. Children will have been nicely conditioned into expecting a school dinner though making it harder for parents to then change back to packed lunches for the remaining 9 years of school.

So great helping people for 3 years but it doesn't really tackle the bigger issue does it?

Use the money to fund an increase in entitlement to FSM, use the money to provide free breakfast clubs for all ages or just to improve the quality of the food provided. This is simply an ill thought out "look at us aren't we kind" type policy

the loss of pupil premium is a big factor too. Our school is a one form entry in a mixed housing area. We have a higher percentage of FSM than average.

£63,000 of september's budget is pupil premium. If parents don't register for FSM, we loose £1,300 per child that doesn't register.

That is an enormous hole in the school budget.

No ones answered that question steppe no One has managed to see past the immediate benefits to their child and answer why they think jacosta receiving his meal despite parents earning plenty is preferable to paying for extra classes/groups that benefited those originally on FSM

The pupil premium money is still there BUT it relies on the parents bothering to register for it, which I doubt all will if their is nothing in it for them.

Exactly sirzy they will be glad I be able to hide between all the other children getting FSM as many don't want the teachers to know. And now they won't have to in order to qualify.

It's going to cost schools thousands in infants

Our local schools have sent a form out asking parents to fill it out to discover who is eligible for pupil premium. It should not be affected by the fsm for KS1 children. I know at least two local schools that have done this.

I do think fsm for all KS1 is a good thing. It isn't going to be forced in our school, and if you want to send in packed lunch then your welcome to. It won't actually make that much difference in our school as we have a decent kitchen and I believe most children have school dinners anyway. I believe that they are well catered for in all our local schools, although obviously this isn't the case in every area.

Personally I don't think it goes far enough, I think school meals should be free for all children up to the age of 16. There is so much evidence available that shows children who eat a decent lunch do better in school. And not all children have healthy diets outside of school so any help to get them a nutritional meal a day is a good thing.

If parents don't register for FSM, we loose 1,300 per child that doesn't register.
Is that for people who are currently eligible for FSM and dont' register? What if I choose not to give my 2 DCs FSM from September (both eligible as in Reception and Y1, we don't quality for FSM now)...will I be costing the school 2600? I hope not

YANBU. I think is a ridiculous idea. They should instead raise the FSM threshold for all children in primary. I don't need help with paying for school dinners.
I keep dithering about whether to take up the FSM or now. Our school does sugary, starchy puddings everyday, although does serve up some wholemela carbs a couple of times a week (they love double carbing too..beans and chips seems to accompany most meals). The protein element is a bit dubious and they serve white bread alongside all of it. Knowing my children, even though they will happily eat lentil curries, veg casseroles etc at home, they don't like veg on the side and very likely not to eat the school veg and would happily fill up on bread, processed meats and pudding.
On the other hand, I don't want the DCs to feel left out, as I know that a huge amount of parents will take up the FSM as we are not in a well off area and it will make a big difference to them. I don't want them to feel like I'm being cruel in not letting them eat hot dinners and feel like they are hard done by. I don't know what to do really.
I have no objection to them eating 2 hot meals a day (I do and when we are at home, we went to have a cooked lunch) and would choose FSM in a heartbeat if it was healthier.

Let's not forget all ks1 children already get free fruit daily.

It's this we need the gov to feed our kids properly(along with being responsible for childcare)sentiment that I think is totally bonkers.

So basically now gov's are expected to pay for healthy snacks,a daily hot meal and childcare.

Where is the parental responsibility in all this?

For parents who can't afford the above,yes with bells on,to everybody else sorry plan, budget and have the family you can afford.

No save, I think that will be people who now don't apply even though they are eligible because they are getting the meals anyway. They won't apply until yr three when they need it

OK, pupil premium:

At the moment any child who is eligible for FSM SHOULD register even if they actually never eat them but always have a packed lunch.
Why? because if they are eligible, then the school gets the PP money (in sept £1,300) for that child even if they eat packed lunch, the point is if they are eligible, not the meal.
In practice, it is very hard to get parents to register if they don't want the free food, as they feel embarrassed.

So in sept, every child who is eligible still needs to register, in order for the school to get PP. It is OK for Y1 and Y2 because they registered this year, but reception parents have no incentive at all to register. There is no benefit at all to the parents themselves, as meals are free to all. So the number who register will drop dramatically, and school budget will suffer.

Being eligible means that they receive certain benefits etc, so in sept while you can all get a FSM, you are not all eligible for PP.

This is perceived as being such an important problem, that I know of one school where every child registered get to participate in a raffle draw. The first prize? A family holiday for 4. The school feels that the increase in numbers registering is worth the cost of buying the holiday.

hellojello I agree with you that the standards are too low. There's not that high quality protein in my dd's dinners, they have 'beef' of the roll type and one slice, yes, one slice, as a roast dinner, two tiny potatoes and a sprig of brocolli. My 10 year old really complains about that one!

It could have been an amazing opportunity to lift up nutritional standards, but it is not- Raven's analysis of how exactly two portions of fruit and veg is calculated is spot on- sweetcorn (which is really a carb) and some fruit if you are lucky enough to get there first (my eldest never is, they go in last).

The most frustrating thing is I love the idea of school dinners and have paid for them for years- but I have taken mine off them now due to the large puddings every single day.

No free fruit for KS1 children in our school! We have to provide all fruit snacks ourselves.

angels are you not in England? All schools in England are entitled to free fruit for KS1 children, they just have to register (for free).

Essex! I wonder why we don't get it!

Is it a state funded school? If so you really should be getting it free! www.nhs.uk/Livewell/5ADAY/Pages/Schoolscheme.aspx

Why do so many people assume that wealthy families all eat really healthily? It is true that health and diet is worse in more deprived areas, but there are plenty of well off families with over weight kids. Young children don't have control of their diets. Whether parents can afford to pay for the meals or not is irrelevant, universal provision will ensure that more children from all backgrounds have access to at least 1 balanced meal in the day.
This IS a health initiative. It's about looking at children as a population and understanding that, as a population, they are too fat due to inadequate nutrition. Something has to be done about that. All the posts saying 'my packed lunches are lovely, my kid's ok' are missing the point.
I know many kids who will benefit from this.

Sienna but how is one crappy school dinner a day going to cut obesity?

Kids will just come out of school starving (as mine do) and fill up on crap.

Mine don't fill up on crap because I as their food provider don't have food issues.

The money would be better spent on educating and supporting parents who choose to feed their dc shite alongside running free clubs that would promote exercise the lack of which plays it's part in obesity.