AIBU to think some job seekers should/could be earning their allowance?

[CiderLover]

I have been unemployed in the past so I'm not hating on people claiming benefits.

I just think that it's a shame there are so many able bodied people out there doing nothing*.

Even if it were one day a week, litter picking, cleaning up our beaches, removing graffiti etc.

This way they could add voluntary work to their CV and help maintain their local area.

Isn't this an obvious suggestion?

*This may not be correct

But if the council have jobs available, they should pay someone. 1 less person on the dole.

I agree with free courses (actual courses that lead to actual qualifications, like A levels, NVQs, Gas Safe engineering etc) for people stuck on JSA but not forced slave labour.

I actually think the government would be better off allowing people to "pause" their claim, so that they take temporary or seasonal work without having to end their claim and reclaim. Plus a lot of people cannot tale less than 16 hours, which makes it harder for single parents looking for something to fit in with the kids, that should be looked at.

there should just be a few hours of work a week guaranteed for every uk citizen.

~ 10 hours a week work at min wage or thereabouts. then no need for JSA and those who are unable to gain any other employment are "earning" the money. job done

Who could live off of 10 hours a week at minimum wage? I know people who work 40 hours a week at minimum wage and have barely anything left after rent, bills, travel expenses and food (food dependent on what you can afford after the rest has been paid). And that wouldn't help people on disability benefits.

I don't think people on JSA should be forced to do anything. Volunteering should be offered, but not mandatory, and it shouldn't be something that must be done in order to receive your benefits. And the government would probably try to resurrect Workfare.

On a side note, it's horrible that so many people are turning to food banks to feed themselves due to sanctions (apparently for things as little as missing an interview at the Job Centre). The benefits system is messed up.

I think it would be better to have proper training courses.

My dad lost out on loads of jobs when he was made redundant as his forklift licence had lapsed and the course was too expensive for him to pay for with job seekers. He did eventually get a warehousing course to get formal qualifications and got a job within three months of this.

A lot of jobs need formal qualifications now whereas before they didn't.

I think it would be better to find vocational qualifications and things like fork lift/HGV licences and CSCS cards. A friend of mine could have had a job a lot sooner if he could have got his CSCS card and forklift licence through the job centre rather than having to save up out of job seekers to get it himself.

IMO it would be better to spend the money that currently goes on the training where you basically write a CV for two weeks on proper training that can help get a job.

Numanoid Clearly it isn't a solution to replace all benefits. hence I only said JSA...

Of course you cant live off that much money, you cant live off job seekers allowance alone either.

It wouldnt replace disability benefits, housing benefits, or any benefits other than jobseekers. At ten hours a week it still leaves plenty of time for applying to jobs.

Unlike the workfare scheme though, it could actually benefit society rather than just the pockets of large multinationals.

And companies wouldn't just stop hiring and slowly replace everyone but managers with people on mandatory 10 hour contracts, that they don't have to pay tax on, would they?

Forced work of any kind is wrong. We should be enabling people to get a proper job via actual training and for those that seem not to want this, we should be looking at what went so wrong in their life that they are happy to exist on benefits and helping them out of that cycle.

Zero hours contracts should be abolished/outlawed too.

CiderLover

From my calculations...

Housing Benefit - £100 per week
Council Tax Benefit - £25 per week (ish)
Job Seekers Allowance - £70 per week
Total £200 per week

Minimum wage is £6.31 per hour - so the same working 30 hours per week

PPs that have said things along the lines of "if there's work, pay them a wage" - I think it's safe to say they're being paid enough already!

Sezamcgregor

I see you're carefully giving the 25+ rates there. Under 25's aren't necessarily even able to claim housing benefit! There goes £100!

Income-based JSA rates
Status Weekly amount
Single (under 25) £57.35
Single (25 or over) £72.40
Couples (both aged 18 or over) £113.70
Lone parent (18 or over) £72.40
Lone parent (under 18) £57.35

Oh, and people with jobs get Working Tax Credit!

Using this, I think oyour person would get tax credits.

Do you usually live in the United Kingdom? Answer given: Yes
Are you aged 16 or over? Answer given: Yes
Are you married or living with a partner? Answer given: No
Do you have any children under 16 who usually live with you? Answer given: No
Do you have any children under 20 and in full-time education or training? Answer given: No
Do you normally work 16 hours or more each week? Answer given: Yes
Are you aged 25 or over? Answer given: Yes
Do you normally work 30 hours or more each week? Answer given: Yes
Do you get or have you recently been getting a disability or sickness related benefit? Answer given: No
Was your total income more than £13,000 between 6 April 2012 and 5th April 2013? Answer given: No

Have you missed something, sezamcgregor?

A wage is instead of JSA and much of the other benefits, which would be reduced to zero or top-ups.

If you are 24 or under, then JSA is £57.35. (I know it's more for older people, but the 24 or under group is the most likely to be "healthy and able" with no caring commitments or health problems etc.).

If someone worked one day a week, as you suggest, for lets say 8 hours at minimum wage then that is £6.31x8=£50.48. At these rates, then your work isn't really voluntary, it's just a job paying barely more than is the absolute legal minimum, especially if you expect them to do anything more than this in hours, which you implied you might.

Claiming jobseekers is quite intrusive into your life, i.e. enforcement officers can come round to your house to check there's no one else living there, you HAVE to go in to your unpaid JSA meetings unless you have a really good excuse like being ill (so if that means you miss your child's play or whatever, tough shit). I know, boo hoo, you don't care, sure, but the point is...

I don't see how it's reasonable for the council/JSA/whoever to expect the latter when they are receiving the former - it's just maintaining an unfair hold over someone's life when really, you should be paying them for doing the work in the first place.

It would just be a way for councils to receive extremely cheap labour while not having to class the workers as 'employees' and give them the appropriate rights that are put in place by employment law.

The calculator said the previous set of circumstances would probably get tax credits, by the way.

Now, let's try with someone under 25.

Do you usually live in the United Kingdom? Answer given: Yes
Are you aged 16 or over? Answer given: Yes
Are you married or living with a partner? Answer given: No
Do you have any children under 16 who usually live with you? Answer given: No
Do you have any children under 20 and in full-time education or training? Answer given: No
Do you normally work 16 hours or more each week? Answer given: Yes
Are you aged 25 or over? Answer given: No
Do you get or have you recently been getting a disability or sickness related benefit? Answer given: No

Conclusion

Sorry, because you don't have children and you're under 25, you probably don't qualify for tax credits.

It's not working people who are screwed. It's people under 25.

I just think that it's a shame there are so many able bodied people out there doing nothing

Welfare benefits are a safety net not a quasi working house wage.

They should provide support until people are able to work. This is for them to eat etc.

Job seekers are looking for work - what more do you want?

Oh great, lets punish those who find themselves out of work.
Give them community service.
People should be paid the min wage at least for working, which is more than unemployment benefit, so you condone slavery then?

I was recently job hunting, after being a SAHM for some years. I couldn't claim benefits because the income from my husband is above the threshold.

Job hunting took up all of my time, and I felt guilty whenever I had to do anything at all else. It was soul destroying too, most of the time.

What I really needed was proper help to get myself back into work (I am now working every morning, but it wasn't easy to find). I can't see how litter picking would have achieved that, although if your point is that known layabouts should be doing something for their money then I can understand where you are coming from. Other voluntary work might have helped a little, but I just kept pegging away with the hunting for paid work until I got something.

all that national insurance is people earning their jsa
you work. you pay into an 'insurance' scheme in case you lose your job. you lose your job. insurance pays out.

Why are people bandying about 'slave labour' or 'working for nothing'? No one has suggested that. What the op is essentially suggesting is that people are given guaranteed work to 'earn' their jsa- so one day a week at min wage -,leaving plenty of time to seek jobs.
In theory, this is an obvious idea, not sure how it would work in practice tho.

I'd like to see the Job Centre actually helping people into employment rather than telling claimants that they are lazy, feckless and entitled scroungers who are slacking every day.
Only vicious to those that they can bully without consequences though. The JC didn't used to be like that, they were useful and knowledgeable.

But if there's work available, people on jobseekers, should be given actual jobs. If there's no work available, then what, precisely, are we going ask them to do?

If there is a job there, advertise it and hire someone and pay them a living wage.

arethereanyleftatall, can you explain to me why you, as a taxpayer, would prefer to pay the wage of a working person out of your own pocket, rather than them being paid by their employer?

I wouldn't prefer to, of the options you've given, but if the options were discussing - ie £70 for nothing or £70 for some work, yes I'd take the latter.

Of
We're

I thought that as well, local community work would be great and I agree with the principle of working a few hours as it keeps you sane as it'll help with the CV and keep you busy.

But then they just went and did work fare and got people working for massive companies for pittance and if they went down the local route I bet they'd make you wear degrading outfits and treat you like shit then too, so it'd be a lose lose situation. Somebody pointed out to me that it would be unfair on local services if people were doing a half-assed job too, which is very true.

When I was on JSA I remember getting quite upset that I couldn't volunteer for a morning a week in a charity shop or a nursery as I just needed to feel like I was doing something. I was told that I couldn't as it would detract from my time job hunting, but I spent hours upon hours every day job hunting and getting nowhere.

I do think that if people want to volunteer, that they shouldn't be completely restricted from doing it, as long as it's a few hours a week at most and they are actively job hunting. Having something to put on a CV is better than nothing after all.

My partner and I had to move back into seasonal work to get a job in the end, we couldn't get one otherwise, it was ridiculous.

The courses were stupid as well, we were sent on "getting back to work" training courses where they had some patronising twat telling us about ways to find a job (i.e. the internet, a newspaper, the job centre, etc), and then would individually pick us apart in front of the others in the room (about 10 of us). There were men in their late 30's/early 40's in my course who were decently paid professionals and had been made redundant and the way she spoke to them was fucking awful. One was a well educated IT professional and she was saying to him that he should be applying for min wage stuff in a town 30-odd miles away, min wage wouldn't even cover his train fare! When he tried to explain this she started saying "well, a job is a job, you should be grateful to find one." Easy for you to say

Goblinchild well said.
years ago that is what happened, you went on the dole and they found you a job.
now you just see and advisor as part of a group and get sent on courses.
people want jobs not to be treated like criminal.
picking up rubbish......ffs

'she was saying to him that he should be applying for min wage stuff in a town 30-odd miles away, min wage wouldn't even cover his train fare! When he tried to explain this she started saying "well, a job is a job, you should be grateful to find one.'

Perhaps he should have hers. He couldn't have done it any worse.