To Think True Friends Don't Act Like This

[Zilverblue]

Met a woman at a mutual friend's houseparty and she contacted me to see if I wanted to meet up for coffee. Did so and got on quite well. Then went to see a film together, I was quite busy but made time although to be honest it wasn't really my taste in films, but appreciated she was being friendly and making an effort. So I've known her about six months.

We are friends on FB and she put a comment loosely relating to my field of work (think psychology-related). It was incorrect, so I commented, gently, so as to correct it. A male friend of hers then engaged with me directly, telling me I was wrong and suggesting some reading material (ie internet sites) where I could "learn about the subject". I reiterated my point and backed it up with written sources, etc.. He argued with this and I again corrected it. I thought I was fairly polite, considering I didn't know him, didn't engage him myself and he was a total arse.

Female friend must have been observing this, as after a couple of days she sent me a lengthy pm telling me she had deleted the thread. It was quite critical of me, telling me my sources were impossible to find, I was "harsh" and shouldn't criticise her friends or speak to them like that. It went on a bit in this vein. I ignored the pm but inwardly seethed and I let it go a while so the red mist wouldn't control my response. After 4 weeks, I sent her a pm saying that I had many good friends and none of them criticised me as much as she did, that there was nothing wrong with my knowledge of my own subject and she might want to apply her own judgemental criticism to herself at times. I invited her to defriend me. She has now done so.

Am I BU to find her judgemental? I actually think I'm quite good at taking criticism where its due but there was something about this that just wound me up. I feel bad because she went out of her way to make friends with me.

YABU to a) "correct" people in public and b) use a phrase as annoying as "true friend".

I waited a month, not because I had any specific intent to wait exactly 4 weeks (it may have been 3 1/2 or 41/2) but because I didn't initially trust myself not to reply in kind to her pm offering guidance. However after seeing more BNP stuff up on her FB wall, I think my instincts were right. I appreciate most people see FB as frivolous but I work in this field and I will always challenge in public views I find offensive. True, the really offensive views belonged to her male friend, but I was genuinely shocked that they were trying to portray them as mainstream. She is an intelligent person and from her reactions I surmised that she too was in favour of those views.

I have no idea why she singled me out to befriend in the first place, since it must surely be obvious that I am chippy as pointed out above.

Appletini I am so sorry. I genuinely didn't realise that the phrase "true friend" was so offensive. If you substitute it with the words "good friend" you will get the same idea as to what I meant. I promise I didn't intend some offensive campaign by using these phrases!

However after seeing more BNP stuff up on her FB wall, I think my instincts were right.

Drip, drip, drip.

^^ There's a hole in my bucket, my bucket, my bucket...

Seriously Zilverblue, you didn't think to mention the BNP stuff before now?

Because I didn't want to make it all about politics. I think people are entitled to their political views. We live in a democracy. I don't even know if she is a member or simply shares some of their posts on FB. It was that specific view I took exception to, because its my field of work.

Is there a list of words and phrases you can and cannot use on here? Can someone direct me to it?

It's important to put as much information as you can in the first post. People will get the wrong end of the stick otherwise and you'll end up with a very different thread from the one you were intending.

I love the way the way everyone is making out they would have just walked away from the argument- like you all do on MN then!

I know cos I'm the worst for not being able to walk away from an online argument especially on a topic I know lots about.

It is hard to remember that there are usually emotional costs to being right, even if you are in the right, and people forget this all the time on here just as you did in this situation.

I love the way the way everyone is making out they would have just walked away from the argument- like you all do on MN then!

OP did walk away from the argument though - for a month!

It took her that long to calm down to be able to pen a response to ex pal. And even then, the response hardly sounds calm and reasoned.

No matter, it doesn't sound as if either were well suited as friends so no great loss on either side.

I personally would have ignored the guy on her fb after he started arguing - you don't know her relationship with him at all. If a newish friend of mine seems to have annoying people on their fb I just hide their newsfeed. He might have been her BFF so I'd expect her to quite possibly be very pit out if you (a newbie friend) argue with him in public on her wall.
I have friends who in turn have friends whose views on science (my profession) offend me (militant climate change deniers, anti-vaccine, pro-homeopathy) but for the sake of our mutual friends I bite my tongue.

I didn't go back to the argument Pumpkin. It was being told, like a little child, how I must behave, by this woman. My response was extremely rational and I simply pointed out to her that if she applied her own criticisms to herself, she was guilty of the same things that she was accusing me of. I made no mention of the content of the argument itself.

I have friends of many different political persuasions, because I think its more important what kind of person you are deep down and how you behave than what kind of political cause you attach yourself to.

I'm wondering now whether she tried to befriend me because she thought I might share her views initially.

I was also annoyed that the male friend kept addressing me directly, when it was pretty obvious I didn't want to engage with him.

Thankfully its all over now. Odd episode.

So she likes art house films and the BNP. She sounds unusual!

Hello OP...

doesn't sound like you and she were ever going to be true friends, really.

Better to find this out now, early into your friendship. Just let it go.

For what it is worth, I think you made a mistake trying to use a rational argument on a BNP member!

Honestly, how old are you both... a facebook tiff between adults, really?

And to be honest it nearly always comes across as arrogant or rude when you 'correct' someone else online, however 'gently' it is done. Also if you discuss crime, politics, religion, etc, you have to expect people to have strong views without always having 'evidence' to back them up.

Grin@Mabel
My thought too.

OP, I don't mean to be unkind when I say this.

I'm noticing that you don't seem to pick up social cues very well. I was joking when I said YABU to use such an irritating phrase. I'm really surprised to see you apologising to me. I was being facetious and frankly quite rude to you.

It also strikes me that you keep trying to apply logic to this situation. You talk about presenting an alternative viewpoint, supplying sources, etc as if the proceedings are logical, emotionless and factual.

But people react emotionally, and defensively, if you challenge them, whether they feel you're subtly undermining them or they feel totally defensive. Most people will not immediately agree and change position even if you are obviously right, but will become more defensive. It's like how two magnets can push against each other.

You question why someone keeps messaging you when you obviously don't want to engage. Because they are riled and want an argument and you're annoying them by not giving them a spat?

I think the loss of this friend is not much of a loss. I'm not criticising your viewpoint. But I think it's a bit odd that you can't see why she was pissed off.

After 4 weeks, I sent her a pm saying that I had many good friends and none of them criticised me as much as she did, that there was nothing wrong with my knowledge of my own subject and she might want to apply her own judgemental criticism to herself at times.

Can you see that this lacks understanding of the emotional side? It was never about your knowledge but about how people felt, social cues, behaviour. She was unhappy about being corrected or shown up in public, about you arguing on her page with her friends.

While I don't like the sound of this woman, I do get where she's coming from. One of my old uni friends recently disagreed with a comment a work associate made on a status of mine and I felt deeply uncomfortable and worried she was offended by his tone.

This was never about your knowledge. I find it really odd that you didn't write something like: "Look, sorry if you were annoyed or upset by what I posted. I usually think of status updates as something I can respond to, didn't mean to cause a fuss."

Apologies if I'm way off base here but do you normally have this much trouble with social cues? Have you ever been tested to see where you are on the autism spectrum?

Yabu. It's fb. Sounds like you were harsh. Sorry. Fancy getting into a discussion where everyone would see. A lot of incorrect thing on fb...let it go. I'd Defriend you if you done that. Next time just let it go....

wow, this has been a real eye opener for me!
I have a few Facebook friends who put up political stuff. One of them I met 'online' have never met in person. She always puts political stuff up. She's quite opinionated and forthright.
I always assumed she was opening a debate, not just waiting for a handful of her most loyal Facebook friends to pile in with their agreement.
All fluffy in case anyone sees two grown adults gave a difference of opinion on their status.
Wow!
I had no idea.
Seems I've been committing a giant faux pas for years and years!

numpties that was pretty much my thinking. All I really did was post one reasoned response and the rest was her male friend (not a boyfriend) addressing me personally and making "suggestions" as to my reading material (i.e. blogs and websites) in the field in which I work. We're actually encouraged by our governing body to take part in online debates to some extent, subject to a whole host of rejoinders.

Appletini I'm noticing that you don't seem to pick up social cues very well. I was joking when I said YABU to use such an irritating phrase. I'm really surprised to see you apologising to me. I was being facetious and frankly quite rude to you

Hi Appletini. I was being sarcastic in my response to you and in thanking you. I'm sorry that you didn't pick up on that. I didn't want to respond in an angry way because I found your response controlling (and patronising) and I felt you were trying to draw me into an argument that would confirm your assumptions. I'm quite surprised you think that someone would make a genuine apology to you in such a scenario without being sarcastic actually. Had this really not occurred to you?

Apologies if I'm way off base here but do you normally have this much trouble with social cues? Have you ever been tested to see where you are on the autism spectrum?

No, I haven't. You are aware that there are plenty of fully functioning members of society who are autistic and who are never tested, because there is little to be gained from it? That it isn't some "badge" to be applied to someone to mark them in a certain way?

Have you been tested yourself? I just find it interesting that you can identify facetitousness in yourself but not when others are doing it back to you. Its to do with theory of mind. You do realise that it is a tad unusual to pick up on certain words and phrases and criticise people for using them? Do you do this a lot? How do you find that goes? i.e. I would tend to just avoid you if you did that more than once and I only went to the effort to tell this woman what I thought because she had made such an effort to be friends with me. Fair enough if its genuinely offensive phrases you're objecting to such as swearing or racist terms but "true friend" - seriously?!

Anyway, I was comparing this woman to my other, many very good friends and none of them would speak to me like this, so whats the point in bending over backwards to let her mould me into the sort of person she thinks her friends should be?

Hmmm I have a mate who posts all kinds of crazy DI and anti-vaccination stuff and my SIL posts loads of crazy animal rights stuff.

I just hide things I don't want to see - I wouldn't have a go at someone for posting what they want on their Facebook unless it was racist or homophobic or hateful. People are entitled to be wrong.

I hate it when people argue with things I post or try to correct me to their way of thinking. I just think they are massive arseholes and tend to set them to acquaintances and then eventually block them. Life is too short for people who always need to be right!