or is my neighbour?

[ClimbingFrameWars]

We have lived in our house for 3 years now, and have always got on ok with the neighbours - not best friends, but know them to chat to, children have been to play there a couple of times, theirs have come here a couple of times, etc. All well and good.

We are wanting to build a new climbing frame/swing set for the children. We have got an independent company in to design and build as our dd has SN, and is already a bit too big for easily available commercial ones, and we want this to last her a while - she loves being outdoors and playing, and this is not going to change through her teenage years and beyond.

Our neighbour on the side where the frame is planned to go is upset. The frame height etc are all within legal parameters for height and distance from boundary etc. currently, we have a hideous concrete block wall along that side of the garden, at a height of nearly 2.5m on our side. Their garden is higher than ours, such tht their small children (6 ish) can easily stand head height above the wall on the path on their side.

Their garden is enclosed on all 3 sides (both sides and the bottom of the garden) by this wall. They also have trees (on the other side belonging to their neighbours) on one side and at the bottom (belonging to them, obv) which are a good 4ft higher than the wall, at least. Neighbour is upset because if we build te frame where we want it, it will disturb their view across our garden and out onto the fields behind our bottom fence (and their bottom wall + trees).

We don't want to start a neighbour dispute, but surely this is taking entitled to a new level? They could, if they so wanted, get rid of the trees which actually block their view to the fields from their own garden, and lower/take out their wall? Surely they don't have a valid objection to is building the climbing frame where we want to and blocking their view across our garden?

Our other options are to build it across the bottom of our garden, this blocking our own view across the fields, or we could build it along the other side - neighbour not overly enthusiastic, but not bothered either - but this would leave us with the unsightly wall (which we are happy to hide) as well as giving us problems wrt fence maintenance (fence on other side belongs to us), and just isn't where we want it in the (not over large) garden.

Just build it where you need it to go. If they want a view from their garden, they can chop down the trees.

The frame cannot be put anywhere else. If we put it along our rear boundary, it obstructs our view (and theirs!) across the fields. As a structure (with space for slide and swings etc) it takes up half our garden as it is. That is our decision, for the good of our children in our situation, but there really isn't space to put it elsewhere.

Work has commenced on clearing the area...

So why exactly did you bother posting since you know you're right and you're going to do whatever you want anyway?

The same reason anyone else does

I wanted a quick straw poll of people's opinions as to whether we were being unreasonable.

I am not trying to reject any suggestions, but we didn't just
Pluck this plan out of thin air. As said above, we had multiple site visits to gette location/impact on neighbours minimised. We have considered other options.

This objection, which is clear NIMBY - they just don't really want is to have a climbing frame at all - has taken is by surprise. But yes, we will do what we need to do to maximise the enjoins of our garden for our children. We will of corse bear in mind (and have done) all legal parameters.

Grr typos. Fat fingers on phone.

Don't really get it, as if the wall is 2.5m high anyway and your garden is that much below the level of theirs , how can the top of your frame height be any greater unless it above the max permitted height . Or is it that the field in view is level with or below your garden and they look down onto it ? Surely they can still see horizontally across as before .

I cannot see why you cannot build your climbing frame on the side closer to your other neighbours, who apparently do not object, thus preserving your own view and that of the unhappy neighbours. They have no entitlement to their view, but I am not sure they would be able to chop down the trees outside their garden wall, as presumably they do not belong to them?
Having said that, are you sure you need such a large structure? It sounds completely out of proportion to the size of your garden,(I read the point about special needs) and will certainly reduce the value of neighbours' property if trying to sell, when buyers see, and hear, a large playground structure towering over boundaries.
I think you have set the course for disagreement with your neighbours for some years to come, which will ignite particularly when your children are on the climbing frame all through the long summer days.
What about the neighbours' privacy? Is there no compromise you are prepared to make?

Too late for all of us, Goblin. The decision has already been made.

as others have said, I think you should block your own view rather than theirs.

as others have said, I think you should block your own view rather than theirs.

Except the neighbours could unblock their view.

The frame cannot be put anywhere else. If we put it along our rear boundary, it obstructs our view (and theirs!) across the fields.

there really isn't space to put it elsewhere.

Building it across the bottom of the garden blocks everyone's view and there isn't really space to put it anywhere else.

That's your opinion. I am stating mine.

Well I'll reiterate what I said upthread that I think you should put your climbing frame where suits you best.

What I wouldn't do is send the contractor round to talk to them. This idea that they get a say, beyond expressing a preference if asked, needs to stop.

If their view is important to them they can do something about that. They are being awkward because they don't want you to have a climbing frame that they can see. Well tough. It's not unreasonable to have a climbing frame in your garden.

Legally there is nothing they can do - but since you went to the bother of telling them about your plans, they have responded and told you what they think of them. They don't like your plans, you don't like their response...

It sounds as if you are installing one hell of a climbing frame - more than half the garden and higher than the existing wall??! Can't say I'd be exactly thrilled either - but give you're working within the law then they will just have to suck it up, as they say. Sometimes though, just because the law says you can doesn't mean you should.....

I suspect this will cause tensions from now on in, so if there is really no compromise or alternative, and you are happy to live with the consequences, then of course you should go ahead. There is, after all, no legal reason why you shouldn't.

Ok, I'll do my best to answer all the questions.

LIZS - the wall is under 2.5m on our side. On theirs, it is about 1m, as their garden is higher than ours. This obviously impacts on our privacy, Goblin, as anyone in their garden who walks along thier path is instantly overlooking our garden - even their 4 year old! We have not, however commented on this, as c'est la vie!

The frame will be about 1m higher than the wall, in part, set at an appropriate distance from the boundary, not jammed up against it.

We do not want to put the frame on the other side, next to other neighbours, as it will give us fence maintenance issues in the future (there is a waist height wooden fence on this side, which is our fence to maintain). It will also then block one set of steps down into the garden, which lead from our terrace down into the garden. Given the orientation of our house on the plot (and other neighbours house on their plot) , it would also box in this part of the terrace, which is not particularly desirable.

We do need a larger structure, given dd's age and size. This is something she will not grow out of needing/wanting/using, and so it needs to be a bit larger than standardly available ones, to give dd the head space/required heights to ensure safety. It is not enormous, and will be under 3.5m in height (legal requirement for where we are situating the frame is 4m). It is a standard playset, with a platform and slide, swing arm and a tower/house on the other side. Nothing outrageous (and much nicer looking than many i have seen) - what they will see of it is the top of the swing arm, and a beautifully built cedar shingle roofline, which will look an awful lot better than the grotty falling down shed it is replacing (at the same height)

They could chop down/cut back the trees outside their wall, as thye do belong to them (complicated arrangement whereby we all have a strip of land bordering our property which is for us to maintain - somethign to do with it being a 'no-mans land' so that the cows do not damage our fenceline).

It is not 'such a large structure' - it is big for our garden, yes, which is our choice considering the needs of our children now and in the future. But it will not be towering over their garden anymore than the shrubs which have just been removed have been (we checked - an elderberry has just been taken out which is higher and wider than the bits which they will see anyway)

I do take the point that relations might not be good in the future. They won't be if we don't go ahead, either. We have a swing and slide set that dd is already too big for - she cannot play on it safely. We need to replace it for her, so that she can play in her own garden. We cannot replace it with a standardly available commercial one, as they are the same size. The one we will be building is not hugely bigger, but is enough bigger for it to be safe for dd now and for years to come.

There is a potential compromise on distance from the boundary - I need to walk that through later on, as moving it further into our garden might end up compromising the steps on that side of our terrace (awkward bloody gardens round here!), but we will move it slightly if we can. We cannot place it anywhere else in the garden without still obstructing their view of the fields (which they want without actually having from their own garden backing onto the same fields!) or blocking in our terrace and compromising our own use of our garden.

Contractor went round earlier - his choice not ours! - to see if there was anything that could be done. They have said that they are apparently going to be clipping/chopping the trees at the end of their garden this year, so they will gain extra vista from there.

Given that their garden is so much higher than yours it's not really going to block their view anyway is it? Just impinge on it a bit.

You do realise that if you have a great climbing frame then your house will immediately become THE place for the all the neighbours children to play. We have this issue, mostly it's fine as I can keep an eye on my own children and make sure they're playing nicely. BUT it can feel intrusive when kids are ringing our doorbell several times a day to want to "play with my kids" when they really just want access to the facilities.

Set your ground rules early, and I take a hard line on not providing endless drinks and snacks. If we have our own visitors round with cars on the drive I find it really cheeky for other kids turning up still wanting to come in. I've got pretty harsh lately with opening the door and saying "not today, maybe tomorrow".

When you move into a house, part of the attraction is the panoramic view - for example, if I was looking at a house that had a beautiful view across the bottom of my garden but a scrap yard or an ugly concrete building on one side then I would think very carefully about whether or not I wanted to look onto that for ever more.

They've enjoyed a beautiful view (in their eyes) for a long time now - from well before you moved in - and now something is going to spoil that (again, in their eyes). From what you've said, you're going ahead with the climbing frame - there really is nothing to be done other than compromise on the distance from the boundary.

From a neutral standpoint, I can see why you want to build this (and it's a large structure, there's no two ways about it), and I can see why they are upset (although legally, of course, they have no leg to stand on)

yellowdinosaur - well, yes. quite.

Persil, ys we had considered that. I am quite good at turning away neighbourhood children if necessary, as dd1 does need space and peace at times.

SirChenjin, I do see your point. I would have sympathy with them if they were doing anythign at all about the view from their own garden (ie keepign the trees across the bottom of their garden) in trim, so that they could look out onto said fields. But they aren't (or haven't, up until now)

We are going ahead with the frame, yes. It is something which would benefit dd1 enormously, and she already has a limited range of playskills and opportunities.

I can see why they are bothered. I cannot comprehend why they think we will change our plans to suit them (beyond potential reasonable compromise on distance from boundary). We didn't consult them at all, but did (out of courtesy) let them know the work would be happening. When they raised legitimate concerns (re sunlight) we did our best to allay their fears. But when they started talking about stil wanting a clear unobstructed view across our garden from theirs - that's the bit where they lost me, tbh.

I assume the new fence we put in last month across the bottom of our garden annoyed them already, as it is substantially higher than the old one (which had in part fallen down, so any fence would be higher!) since that must have partially restricted the view across the field too.

as for beautiful view across out garden - our garden is (well, was as we have started work on it - new fence, lots of tidying, and now this round of work which includes more than the climbing frame going in) a complete jungle. Previous owners had let it run wild for years. Everything was overgrown and tatty, and any structures (fence, shed, even the garage) are/were crumbling, grotty and hideous.

Quite frankly, anything would be an improvement (or so we thought!)

Neighbour hitches our difficult and under reported

It sounds fab OP. You have considered all of the options and plumped for the one that works best for you and your family in your garden - who wouldn't?! You and the company that you have contracted sound as if all of the legal concerns have been thoroughly checked out.

No body has any right to a view, and as your garden is so much lower than your neighbours, I really think that they are nitpicking.

Can we see a picture once it's done?

yanbu seems like you have been more than reasonable with them , if it makes life happier for your dd then go for it , i didnt speak to my neighbours for 5 yrs after they constantly complained about my dog ,the ivy , the fence ,the kids and every thing else under the sun , made no difference to my life .

Is it going to impact on their sunlight?

Nope, no impact on sunlight at all. That was their first objection, and as soon as we pointed out that, given the garden orientation, it wouldn't impact on sunlight at all (and not on light, tbh, given that is it only visible at the points where previous rundown buildings have been visible, or tall trees/shrubs), the objection was changed to being about an 'artificial building' (not sure what they think our current ex shed was!).