to love PMQs?

[OTheHugeManatee]

Apparently something like 70% of MN thinks PMQs is 'outdated, unprofessional and needs to change'. So clearly I'm in a minority. But I actually love PMQs. It's on in the canteen at work every week and I always make the effort to be down there at noon on a Wednesday to watch the bunfight.

I don't care if it's rowdy. I don't really care if it's a bit old-fashioned. Plenty of modern things are a bit shit, being old-fashioned isn't necessarily bad. I don't even particularly care if no serious politicking happens there either. (Though I do think important dividing lines are drawn between the parties in the cut and thrust of live debate.) I enjoy watching it and frankly I'd rather have a political system with space for public bunfights than one built on shady EU-style deals in darkened rooms with nary a whisker of democracy or public scrutiny to be found in any of them.

Surely I'm not the only one?

I don't think there is a direct link between the gender imbalance and PMQ though. Unless you are saying that women cannot hold their own under these circumstances, which I disagree with wholly!

I was thinking about this campaign in the night and getting increasing bothered by it. Can anyone link to the survey?

I too would be interested to find out how many of those who voted against PMQs actually listened to it regularly.

What do people want to replace it with though? I want my politics to be out in the open, bad behaviour and all so we can see how the people who are paid to represent us are doing so. A politician who acts like a 5 year old in PMQ's should be told to sit down and shut up I'll agree with that but a warts & all debate is surely better than a restrained and over polite conversation?

The way I look at it is this. For some (or maybe many) reasons women (and people from ethnic minority backgrounds, poorer backgrounds etc ) are under represented in politics. Now maybe for some this is not a problem. Personally I think it is. I also worry about things like low voter turnout.

Now I wouldn't say that PMQ is the sole reason for these things but I certainly don't think it helps. I cannot believe that most people would be happy to be openly ridiculed and jeered when trying to make a point and honestly how does this help the debate? The only other place I've ever come across this dynamic is when one group of people are trying to bully another into submission.

So 2 questions. Who would be happy to see this sort of debate in any other public arena

Secondly why would PMQ be worse without the endless jeering and abuse?

I'm another one who is bewildered as to why this is on the Mumsnet agenda. Its not like there aren't other more pressing campaigns to be fought.

Also, op, don't worry - its not that 70% of Mumsnetters think PMQs needs reforming - just 70% of the people who bothered to reply to their voluntary survey do.

I suppose as well I'm irritated by the idea that MN is claiming the right to act as some sort of playground monitor in public life, based on an entirely self-selecting group of respondents to a survey whose questions were, to my mind (I answered it) very tendentious and leading. It was abundantly clear that MN wanted the survey to say MNers think Parliament is outdated, sexist and posh. I'm not surprised to find there's now a stupid MN petition based on that survey calling for MPs to 'reform' something that to plenty of people's minds is fine as it is. I suspect they were planning some kind of MN intervention in UK political life based on it even before the results came in. To me it all seems a bit self-serving and attention-seeking - basically exploiting the opinion base of MN to get political exposure for Justine as Helen.

I suppose I just wish they'd concentrate on serious campaigns that actually benefit MNers rather than petty 'look at me' stuff with a spurious feminist justification but that's IMO more about unsubtle 'Gizza OBE' posturing.

Totes agree with you, OP. Hear hear!

BarbarianMum, having done politics for many years now (though granted I've never been an MP!) I kind of suspect you can't take the heckling out of it. You see it all the way from tiny meetings of five people representing seven different factions... to the Houses of Parliament.

I've also seen attempts to stop and prevent it, and they just don't seem to work. You end up with daft things like applause being "too male and aggressive" forcing participants to wave their hands up and down if they agreed (everyone bursts out laughing or refuses to do it), or the Speaking Stick which works on a principle somewhat akin to the conch in Lord of the Flies. And usually causes a wrestling match as everyone tries to wrest it off each other while snarling "Give me the fucking Speaking Stick, I've got an important point to make here"

I do agree with you there is a problem with underrepresentation of women and BME people in Parliament (the class thing is a separate issue IMO) but politics by its very nature involves strong feelings and strong emotions. That's not an excuse for the sexist type of male MPs who make boob-jiggling gestures etc, but when the jeering stays political, I don't see how you can get rid of that.

Not sure if this is what's putting women off either. I recently watched a debate in the Scottish Parliament where female politicians on the SNP and Labour benches were getting into it - giving each other the full Jeremy Kyle treatment with pointing fingers, mock outrage, head-tilting and "talk to the hand" gestures. Politicos by nature have tough skins, and they did not seem to feel their female natures held them back....

YANBU

I love and if DH and I are at home on Wednesday lunchtime we always turn on. Mind you we watch the Daily Politics too .

YANBU. I like it.

YANBU.

There are individual problems with PMQs. But PMQs are brilliant- we get a chance to see what is going on and see how our MPs really act and see the actual goings on- not merely the sanitised statements about something or other being passed or something or other being discussed. It is engaging, imo, for many people- not especially for me, although I am hugely interested in politics- and encourages people to be interested in politics.

Totally agree op absolutely.

I never voted or thought Maggie thatcher was right but she bloody well held her own in PMQs. Love it.

Would hate it to he replaced by some bamby pan by committee style sanitised chat.

Politics is tough and rough. I see many women hold their own and Some not. Men too.

Why mumsnet are bothering with this daft campaign is beyond me and the pop up is annoying.

Ffs concentrate on real issues.

Also agree OP, pat here is no way I'm supporting a campaign to abolish an example of transparent and open democracy.

I also totally fail to see the link between lack of women and ethnic minorities in parliament and PMQS. Surely issues at a constituency party level are far more relevant.

I love PMQ. In fact I actually have it on series link record on Sky. I saw the MN survey and totally ignored because I just thought it was ridiculous.

I also love Question Time

Just a thought but maybe MNHQ are running out of new campaign ideas? Someone should start a 'AIBU to start a MNHQ new campaign suggestion --box- thread'.

I agree with everything the Manatee said so eloquently.

I don't like the boorish nature of PMQ's and I think it stifles real debate. Its not about holding the PM to account but grandstanding and trading insults. I would like to see the yah boo nature toned down so the PM really has to answer questions and can't hide behind "well you lot are worse so ner!" type of responses.

I think if Mumsnet had promoted the survey itself with the same insistance and enthusiasm they're promoting the petition, they might have had a wider response in the first place.

What do people want to replace it with though?

It's spelled out in the petition - Justine eloquently says:

This could include introducing rapid-fire Q&As, more open questions, taking questions directly from voters via social media, and penalties for MPs who behave badly

Want more detail than that? Well, Justine wants changes to be made "along the lines proposed by the Hansard society". There's a link to the mumsnet survey, and the survey contains a link to the Hansard report - a 94 page document.

I suppose as well I'm irritated by the idea that MN is claiming the right to act as some sort of playground monitor in public life, based on an entirely self-selecting group of respondents to a survey whose questions were, to my mind (I answered it) very tendentious and leading. It was abundantly clear that MN wanted the survey to say MNers think Parliament is outdated, sexist and posh. I'm not surprised to find there's now a stupid MN petition based on that survey calling for MPs to 'reform' something that to plenty of people's minds is fine as it is. I suspect they were planning some kind of MN intervention in UK political life based on it even before the results came in. To me it all seems a bit self-serving and attention-seeking - basically exploiting the opinion base of MN to get political exposure for Justine as Helen.

I suppose I just wish they'd concentrate on serious campaigns that actually benefit MNers rather than petty 'look at me' stuff with a spurious feminist justification but that's IMO more about unsubtle 'Gizza OBE' posturing.

Couldn't agree more.

The petition lacks authority.

The sample was self-selecting and therefore not representative of mumsnet, let alone women more generally.

The questions:
www.mumsnet.com/politics/general-election/2015/political-culture-survey-results

Do you think that
"That MPs conduct themselves well and the process is effective?"

These two issues should not be conflated. Effectiveness is separate from MPs' conduct. And it's a leading question.

"That they’re not as effective as select committees (for example the Public Accounts Committee)?"

Another leading question. How many people in reality have any idea about the effectiveness of select committees? And it's a false dichotomy. We have select committees AND Prime Minister's Questions. They serve different purposes. You might as well say 'Washing powder is not as effective as red wine'

"That PMQs are a great tradition?"

Another leading question

"That the atmosphere of PMQs is unprofessional & outdated?"

Again.

"That PMQs damage parliament’s reputation?"

Getting silly now.

The proper way to do these questions is:

"Thinking about PMQs, could you tell me your thoughts on their effectiveness'
"Could you tell me your thoughts about how PMQs are conducted'

and then ask people to give their thoughts.

"From what you have seen or heard, do you think the political culture in Westminster is sexist?

This is a leading question.

"From what you have seen or heard, do you think promotion within the UK parliament or government is primarily based on...
Talent and hard work?
Willingness to toe the party line?
Whom you know/ connections/ school/university attended?
Something else?/ not stated"

Another leading question, the correct way to ask this question is UNPROMPTED, i.e. 'What do you think determines promotion within the UK government.'

I mentioned it earlier but perhaps they could consider supporting the Law Society of England and Wales who are calling for a criminal investigation into Wonga's impersonation of solicitors.

PMQT...no forewarning of the questions to be answered, would help quite alot.