to think that expecting Y9 to collaborate like adults is asking a bit much?

[oneofthegiantsisme]

DD's year is doing a project which means they are put into groups and asked to develop business ideas (theoretical, not to be put into practice).

I completely understand the logic behind it, that they're trying to give the kids the business understanding/team working/negotiation skills which employers want in school-leavers, but I can't help thinking that at 14, they simply don't have the emotional maturity to do this successfully. It means being dispassionate about ideas, being prepared to let go of your own ideas and accept someone else's (even if you don't like the ideas or the person), arguing your case without being personal or taking others' comments personally - all of which can be pretty tricky even for adults.

At their age, it seems to be just turning into a popularity contest, which can be rather demoralising for the less popular kids (like DD ). There are plenty of staff involved, but it doesn't sound like they are taking a sufficiently active role in guiding the youngsters. The result, from my point of view, is I now have a very stressed DD who isn't sleeping and is convinced she "can't do people".

It's a great thing to do at school. And when they hit yr 10 they will need to collaborate for some gcse work so they need to learn now.

Another way would be to have done discussion like this at home where you are both developing different ideas and you need to both learn to listen to what the other says and be able to put your point across.
I agree that this is something you learn and IMO there is no better place than home to do that.

If you think y9 (13/14 year olds) is too young, what age do you think they should be collaborating?
Surely for them to have the skills needed they need to do this and learn from their mistakes. You don't turn 18 and suddenly you have all these skills. It takes work

Ds1 is year 9. He does things like this which he sometimes enjoys and sometimes doesnt.
If he was having group/interaction problems I would be encouraging him to speak to his teacher. Speaking to management is another skill that he will need in the real world and his teacher is a good place to learn it.

Yabu (sorry)

Btw you are not being over sensitive. If your dd is struggling to sleep about it and her confidence/self esteem has reached top bottom, then yes it is time to speak to the teacher.
I would go and see said teacher and explain how hard your dd is finding it. Ask if she could get some support during the exercise and how you could support her too.
Is she throttle to be shy/silent or the one who normslly likes to make her point but got disenhearten of never being heard?

Dd did this in year 6

She was bullied by a cry if I don't have my own way type.

DD's is an enterprise specialist (state comp) school so she's done this from start of yr7 (everyone has enterprise as a regular class). They have to develop individual and group ideas. I think IF they are taught & given the relevant skills, it shouldn't be too hard for any yr9, so any problem is not what but how.

I also have a DD who has been doing collaborative work since year 3. This year 5 she had a tricky group for a collaborative history project where they we given tudor houses and the pupil concerned lives in a tudor house and was determined the entire project would be about her house.
The pupils learnt from the teacher that 'there is no I in team', and managed to create a project the covered all the aspects of tudor houses including houses still lived in.
Talking the teacher so they can provide some team building advice is really important.

I have done this successfully with year 6 and secondary age students.

Year 9 are more than capable.

I think this is more about your dd's self esteem and this is definitely worth speaking to both her subject and form teacher about. The subject teacher can then keep a closer eye and support dd to have a contribution to the group. Is there a deeper issue with bullying to be addressed too?

Ds is 13 and often does work like this and often has to do presentations to the class. I think you're underestimating the kids' abilities.

It is a perfectly valid thing to do in school. Your dd should have an assigned role in the team and they should all be working towards a theoretically marketable product. Rather than approaching the teacher you could perhaps give your dd some strategies to bring to the team, suggestions for a product for example. The winning groupat my last school created a series of books and toys for preschoolers based on geometric shapes. Some wrote the stories, some designed the toys, some orchestrated an advertising campaign and they videoed a presentation. They were Yr 8 .

I find my guides (age 10-14) are far better at working in self-governing collaborative groups like this than a lot if adults!

I think that if there's something not working in your dds team you need to find out what's wrong and address that as a potential bullying issue or a personality clash rather than take issue with the whole task.

At Y9 they could be off to work in 2 years. It's a good time to develop these skills.

I used to loathe these things at school and never got much out of them - sympathise with your dd but it's quite normal, at a much younger age than Year 9, I'm afraid. I still don't like that kind of thing but at least adults are usually mature enough to make it slightly more bearable.

Thanks for all the responses! Clearly IABU to doubt the ability of this age group to cope with this.

My thoughts were based on various bits of research on neurological development I've seen (just pop science of the Horizon/Child of our Time variety, not serious academic stuff), which suggest that at that age children are unable to "read" other people, and of course they're in the middle of raging hormones, so I was wondering whether these factors made this a particularly challenging time for this type of activity. It's a bit like expecting a 10yo to run as fast as a 20yo - however much they practise, the physical development just isn't there.

DD had a better day with it yesterday, anyway - we'd told her to ask the teachers for help if things weren't going well, and they seem to have paid more attention to their group, which helped. Last day today (she's very relieved!), which means it's probably a bit late to talk to a teacher.

To answer some of the points (sorry, having trouble scrolling back to see who said what):
teacher chose the groups, but the group dynamic doesn't seem very good, which is probably the main problem;
yes, she's done this sort of thing plenty of times before - that's how she knows she's not very good at it and got stressed beforehand (she's a patrol leader at Guides and gets in a tizzy about that sometimes too);
I admire the entrepreneurial spirit of some DC, but there's a world of difference between choosing to do something voluntarily with a group of friends, and having to do it with a group of people you don't particularly get on with.

I don't disagree that it's a good thing for kids to learn to do, but I suspect it will never be something that DD enjoys.

Anyone got a good list of careers suitable for those who don't work well in a group?

Research scientist, data analyst, technical writer, any of those careers which focus on facts not emotive factors.
(I would be lousy at this task, too, but it's good to have a practice anyway).

You might find this website and her book "Quiet" very interesting. It has a lot of stuff about how the education system and workplace are biased towards those who like to work in groups and how this can leave those who struggle with group relationships feeling inadequate. Whereas actually, we need both types of people and the role of the people that work well alone needs to be valued more highly.

My older daughter (12) also struggles with group dynamics, so I understand your frustration. But I do agree with others that Year 9 is a perfectly reasonable time to be doing this type of exercise. She may not get a lot out of the project itself. But she will be learning stuff about the difficulty of working as part of a team and will either begin to develop some survival skills ... or become highly motivated to seek out a career that doesn't mean working with Queen Bees .

We had to do group projects at college and were marked on it. Complete pia if you are stuck with idle so and sos who don't care/ won't contribute or know alls who won't listen to other views. Sounds like things have moved on from this if primary schools are doing it.

But your daughter should learn to support the loudest, feign enthusiasm and speak up. Imo that will look good to the teachers regardless of whether she supports the idea or not and be useful in the future in the workplace

My Year One's frequently work in this way and I expect them (by and large) to discuss and collaborate independently. Perhaps your DDs school just hasn't done enough of this sort of work?