Why are poor children considered a lost cause

[mrsbucketxx]

I had my ds's new school induction yesterday and there attitude to families who are less well off really shocked me, if you earn less than 16k your child will receive extra dupport in their education more help at home etc.

Aibu to think they are saying if your poor you have less intellegent children, or you are less likely as a parent to support your childs education at home.

Help with lunches yes
Help witn paying for trips yes

I dont think extra staff and home support is needed it would look like a slap in the face as a parent just cause I dont earn as much.

Or am I being extra sensitive.

[gordyslovesheep]

*NB the above is a massive generalisation - trying to illustrate a point

there are many families I work with that regret their lack of education and so push their kids harder

[AgaPanthers]

There are grammar schools in London that have a small minority of white British kids (as low as 10%).

The intake is typically not poor exactly, but they will tend to come from the less affluent areas, so you end up with rich whites at private schools and church schools, and then lower middle-class immigrants at grammar schools and then the comprehensives take everyone else.

[gordyslovesheep]

www.suttontrust.com/news/publications/poor-grammar-entry-into-grammar-schools-disadvantaged-pupils-in/

[MyFairyKing]

It depends on what we call 'rich' eh?

[Retropear]

But Gordy most kids over pp aren't rich.

That said I agree with Suttons recommendations namely the minimum for all support from primaries.

[ReallyTired]

I feel that the pupil premium has been an excellent idea. I would like the govement to extend the pupil premium to families on working tax credit even if its paid at a lower level than the fsm kids.

PP is about closing the gap between rich and poor kids. Its the idea that your orgins is not necessarily your destiny. Schools have freedom on how they spend the pp because it is recongised that different children have different needs. One child might need help with the train fares to get to a university interview and another child might need a new pair of shoes and another child might need extra tutition.

A lot of fsm children have very supportive and intelligent parents. Life can throw bad things at anyone and benefits are a safety net. I am glad that a loving single mother doesn't have to skip meals so that her child can go on the school residental.

PP is an effective way of improving the lives of low income families.

[Hakluyt]

Retropear - did you read my post? No children who attract Pupil Premium? No as in none?

It is no point pretending it's not true- it is. It was back in the 1930s when your father went to grammar school too.

[Hakluyt]

Except back in the 1930s the very poor children we are talking about who attract pupil premium money would probably not have gone to school at all.

[Retropear]

Sorry not entirely sure what you're on about.

[Hakluyt]

Why do you think there are no children who attract pupil premium money at our local grammar school?

[ReallyTired]

"Why do you think there are no children who attract pupil premium money at our local grammar school?"

pp has not existed long enough to have an impact. Schools are still learning how best to help low income families. It takes years to combat a culture of low expectations.

[ppplease]

This is a classic case, of some will welcome it, and those with maybe too much pride will consider it patronising.

[goonIcantakeit]

Hi Mrs Bucket,

They are not being unreasonable to provide the support.
You are not being unreasonable to query whether they should announce it so publicly.

No one is being unreasonable, it's just bloody hard!

[ppplease]

Same scenario as last week's thread about giving biscuits to a family who were homeless.
Some people who have been previously homeless didnt like the idea.

[Retropear]

Firstly I don't know your grammar school(they vary,hugely).

Secondly according to Sutton 2.7% of grammar kids are on fsm,collectively they reckon the percentage of kids on fsm is 12% so there is a 10% gap which obviously needs to be shortened.

I think re this gap a lot of it is down to attitude.Many will be fooled into thinking only rich kids go which isn't true.Many parents won't be bothered to go over a bit of exam technique and actually apply.Many will think they need a private tutor which again isn't true and many may not have pushed their kids enough over the years to get them to the level needed at the time needed.Many won't have any info from their primaries and many simply won't want the hassle or simply would prefer their kids to be with their friends.

Sutton has some good suggestions,primaries need to play a bigger role imvho,it wouldn't take much.

[mytwoblackandwhitecats]

Objectively I understand what a good thing the pupil premium is.

Non-objectively I can understand why being offered it feels like a kick in the guts and the posters who demand to know 'why? WHY is it a bad thing that you are being offered it?' are being pretty obtuse.

[Hakluyt]

Of course I can see why it might feel a bit shit to know that your child qualifies. What I can't understand is the "of course poor children aren't at a disadvantage as a group because this individual child that I know is poor and is flying academically and has incredibly supportive parents" attitude.

[ReallyTired]

Povety affects children in so many ways. An individual child who is high achieving with supportive parents can still suffer the affects of povety. Why not make an attempt to make their lives easier?

[Retropear]

And I can't understand how anybody can't see that parenting and attitude will have a far bigger impact than money.

My dp could lose his job tomorrow and we could end up needing pp,my kids won't automatically have a worse outcome because of that.We have friends who struggle.It's ridiculous to write off their kids just because of income.Said kids will do well because of how they've been raised regardless of income.

[Retropear]

Make their lives easier- extra staff and home support as mentioned in the op doesn't exactly do that.

The fsm and help with trips may though.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Povety affects children in so many ways. An individual child who is high achieving with supportive parents can still suffer the affects of povety. Why not make an attempt to make their lives easier?

Of course we should.

But we shouldn't forget about the other children and make assumptions there either.

The fact that you can earn £11999.99 (random example) and qualify for this help yet earn a penny more yet be worse off due to drops in benefits/support etc is ridiculous.

A rich kid may not be cold and hungry and share a room with two siblings. But he may be fed crap by a string of shitty au pairs, hardly see his parents and be bullied by his brother. (Again random examples(

Others may travell around with work a lot yet never trigger the intervention and their struggles go unnoticed.

I do realise there has to be a way to identify those at risk of not reaching potential but I don't believe PP is the complete answer.

Just wish someone knew what was.

[goonIcantakeit]

"Of course I can see why it might feel a bit shit to know that your child qualifies."

It does seem as if the teachers at the OP's school were a bit insensitive to that though.

"What I can't understand is the "of course poor children aren't at a disadvantage as a group because this individual child that I know is poor and is flying academically and has incredibly supportive parents" attitude."

At risk of going off-topic, that is, I think, because statistical reasoning isn't taught well enough.

[MyFairyKing]

Retropear Looked after children and children who are carers come under the P.P. too!

[Hakluyt]

"And I can't understand how anybody can't see that parenting and attitude will have a far bigger impact than money."
Of course parenting is crucial- nobody is saying it isn't. Sometimes people can't parent as effectively as they want to because of their circumstances-some parents are just crap. Pupil premium money goes some way to mitigate the effects of both sets of circumstances. The children of better off crap parents usually have at least their basic needs met.

[littlemslazybones]

I think it is because people are heavily invested in the cultural and political narrative that 'anything is possible if you put your mind to it' because the alternative competes with the idea that we live in a reasonable and just society.