Why are poor children considered a lost cause

[mrsbucketxx]

I had my ds's new school induction yesterday and there attitude to families who are less well off really shocked me, if you earn less than 16k your child will receive extra dupport in their education more help at home etc.

Aibu to think they are saying if your poor you have less intellegent children, or you are less likely as a parent to support your childs education at home.

Help with lunches yes
Help witn paying for trips yes

I dont think extra staff and home support is needed it would look like a slap in the face as a parent just cause I dont earn as much.

Or am I being extra sensitive.

[Hakluyt]

Cogito- poorer children do significantly worse than richer ones. There is no question about that.

How do you suggest that issue is addressed?

[kentishgirl]

Fascinating article in the Guardian this weekend about the underachievement of poor children - she looks at the wider context. www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jun/20/dont-blame-poor-children-for-poor-education

It has made me think twice about my judgy pants when it comes to the very underachieving/non working on purpose/no interest in education families I've seen plenty of.

She's right about the lack of 'ordinary' nowadays. My parents were 'ordinary'. Left school at 14, lived in council house all their lives, we grew up in council housing, they had ordinary jobs, everyone around us was the same. We all lived with a decent quality of life, valued education, looked forward to a nice 'normal' life ourselves where we could live off an ordinary job's salary, rent a council home, have a few little holidays, eventually run a car, treat ourselves at times. You could leave school at 16 with a handful of O Levels or CSEs and get a job, sometimes leading to very good careers. This is like shooting for the moon these days for anyone with an 'ordinary' job.

So I can understand families feeling less than motivated these days.

[whois]

The assumption that poorer parents needing extra support bugs me it is a case of tarring all families with the same brush which is patronising,

It isn't patronising. It isn't 'tarring all families with the same brush'. It's about a very real problem and trying to get the nest outcome for the children.

How the fuck anyone can be offended that children loving in poverty are trying to be given a little bit of additional support astounds me.

[YouMakeMeHappy]

Really cogito? That's awful, how rude!! Surely there would be less chance of conflict as you were single

[littlemslazybones]

If those factors that have been seen to create a link between poverty and poor achievement at school, (busy and stressed parents so focused on keeping the wheels moving that there is less time to relax, play with and concentrate on their children) does that mean that we will see a dip in educational standards generally now that more wealthy parents are having to work longer hours, under more pressure, juggling expensive childcare and tending to mega mortgages, (and that's before the interest rates rise)?

Does the education system see this as an upcoming problem or is it considered business as usual and that a parent's education and interest in learning negate those circumstances?

[Hakluyt]

"How the fuck anyone can be offended that children loving in poverty are trying to be given a little bit of additional support astounds me."

I know. Me too.

[Hakluyt]

"Does the education system see this as an upcoming problem or is it considered business as usual and that a parent's education and interest in learning negate those circumstances?"

Nope. A parent's money negates these circumstances.

[Retropear]

I agree op and actually stats are showing it isn't all poor children but white poor children.Poor children from all other ethnic groups are doing better so clearly attitude has a far bigger role to play than many of the items in Tiggy's list.All poor children have and had obstacles,children that aren't poor also have obstacles.Poor children from other ethnic groups don't let obstacles stand in their way.

I don't agree re space or time.Many poor families have two parents unemployed and actually middle income families with 2 workers will have far less time.Many children from all sections of society up and down the land are squashed in tiny houses particularly in expensive areas.The London area must be one of the worst and kids there are excelling.

It's attitude and I do wonder if this continual neg presumption adds to it.

[Burren]

As a former poor child from a non-UK country where such initiatives didn't exist, I can attest to the fact that it's possible to have parents with a work ethic and still be affected by poverty-related issues that have an impact on education.

Both my parents had left school at 12/13 and had serious literacy problems to the point where they struggled with school forms, homework journal, sick notes etc. Our house was tiny, cold and over-crowded, and I would have loved a homework club and someone to check my spellings, or give extra help with things my parents couldn't do.

I was a clever child, but it's undeniable that coming from an overcrowded, bookless house where the adults couldn't read well, and were completely unaware of things like libraries, and where I shared a bed with an elderly relative who got up often in the night for the loo so I slept badly as a result, and where there was absolutely no money, ever, for anything over the barest necessities, held me back.

My parents did their best, and there was food on the table, but the saddest thing, looking back, is the extent to which I internalised their low expectations, because I didn't know better. Not sure of the extent to which a pupil premium could have helped, but it wouldn't have hurt.

[littlemslazybones]

Sorry Hakluyt, I'm not trying to be wilfully dense but how does money fill that gap? Because there's a big gap between £17k and being able to personal tutors and worthy educational pursuits or is a supply of pens, pencils and other basic stuff enough?

[Retropear]

My dad was a very poor child. The attitude he got from his parents and school got him into grammar a year early and ensured he cycled miles a day often in the dark to get there with crappy clothes and newspaper in his shoes.

[fuzzpig]

My DCs have benefited so much from the PP. They get the club paid for that I mentioned above - would be about £10 a week for them both to do that otherwise, and we couldn't really stretch to that. I am so, so grateful that they get to do a little of what their friends do (most of their friends, who are much better off than we are, do several clubs a week)

We always send the money in for school trips but they keep sending it back. I was so amazed the first time that I nearly cried ! Even little extras like a gymnastics workshop in the holidays, and tickets to a show the school are doing at the local theatre. All refunded. It makes day to day budgeting a whole lot easier.

[gordyslovesheep]

money means you have computers, the internet, rooms to study in, childcare after school where home work may be done, books, a job that possibly requires a god standard of education meaning you can help with home work, you encourage ambition in education and expect your child to go onto FE/HE

I work with many families who don't see the point of FE/HE because the parents didn't do it - and the kids are under pressure to go into a 'job' to boost the family income

[ICanHearYou]

Well I've just found out that working means I am not entitled to free school meals for the children, so it is actually less beneficial for me to work now.

Where is the incentive to do better for yourself?

[Hakluyt]

The children of immigrants are a different issue. You need to compare the educational outcomes of poor indigenous children with the outcomes of poor children who remain in their country of origin. Immigrants are self selecting as people with drive and commitment, who have often moved to provide a better life for their children, and will do it come what may. There are many disadvantage indigenous families who do the same- but for many other the struggle is too much.

And at the idea of Lily and Rufus having to share a bedroom in a "tiny" house in Islington being comparable to 5 kids sharing a bedroom with two beds round the back of Kings Cross.

[littlemslazybones]

Sure goody that is so obvious I feel silly posting now. I suppose I was asking how much influence the busy and stressed parents factor had on school achievement but worded it badly.

[Hakluyt]

"My dad was a very poor child. The attitude he got from his parents and school got him into grammar a year early and ensured he cycled miles a day often in the dark to get there with crappy clothes and newspaper in his shoes."

When was that, out of interest?

[littlemslazybones]

gordy not goody (spell check causing havoc)

[Retropear]

Sorry we're talking about poor families,they are equally poor with the same hurdles.They are doing well.It is neither here nor there as to whether they are immigrants.The fact is they have the same resources and do better.

Attitude is the key issue and money can't rectify it.

I think parents should be held to account more.

[beccajoh]

I think you are being a bit sensitive tbh. Just because you don't think you need it that doesn't mean other children don't. Some children WOULD be a lost cause without this sort of scheme.

[Hakluyt]

"Attitude is the key issue and money can't rectify it."

No, but it can mitigate the effects.

[x2boys]

The early education in nursery has really upset me in my Lea some nurseries actually have signs up saying freechildcare for two year olds well its not its supposed to be education ,my son was not offered this as we earn to much despite there being serious concerns about his development from about eighteen months just before last Xmas he was diagnosed with autism and learning difficulties , he was three and a half at the time whoever dreams up these initiatives needs to realise that just because a child is from a low income background they are not necessarily vulnerable but a child who has delopmental concerns particularly in my sons case where ASD was strongly suspected usually are more vulnerable and these nursery places need to be prioritized by the needs of the child not income.

[Hakluyt]

Did you say when it was your father cycled to school with newspapers in his shoes?

[littlemslazybones]

Sod Lily and Rufus, nepotism will get them through. I was thinking about all those kids with families living on the tipping point.