Why are poor children considered a lost cause

[mrsbucketxx]

I had my ds's new school induction yesterday and there attitude to families who are less well off really shocked me, if you earn less than 16k your child will receive extra dupport in their education more help at home etc.

Aibu to think they are saying if your poor you have less intellegent children, or you are less likely as a parent to support your childs education at home.

Help with lunches yes
Help witn paying for trips yes

I dont think extra staff and home support is needed it would look like a slap in the face as a parent just cause I dont earn as much.

Or am I being extra sensitive.

[Retropear]

Exactly Deaky poor children in China do better than rich children here.

This assumption quite frankly must make some families think why bother working hard,it's pointless.

[PinklePurr]

You only get the Pupil Premium for children who qualify for FSM.

Where I am you need to receive CTC but NO WTC to qualify for FSM.

So when DP and I were both out of work (setting a bad example ) DS got FSM and therefore PP, but now that DP is working on minimum wage we get WTC so no FSM and no PP.

Even though we are still 'poor'.

[MellowAutumn]

Its support that is targeted based on generalised statistics - can't see the problem really.

[Hakluyt]

"Exactly Deaky poor children in China do better than rich children here."

Evidence, please?

I do wonder if some people are missing the point on purpose for some strange reason. There doesn't seem to be any other explanation...........

[x2boys]

Gordy I am not saying pp shouldn't exist far from I am a great believer in education but when it comes to free nursery places for two year olds which is supposed to be about education I beleive it should be prioritised for those that really need it and income shouldn't really come into the most vulnerable children should receive regardless of their parents finances .

[deakymom]

the problem lies in where they get there "facts" from in my area the poorest children do well they try harder we don't have a lot of "dirty children" with no access to water just a bunch of hard workers and children who try their absolute best they never seem to gather facts in my area perhaps we break the mold?

[Thenapoleonofcrime]

In China, there has been a massive drop out of poorer children from school in rural areas and their universities suffer from the same problems of privileging the cities/wealthier children as you find in the UK. Of course it is about resources, but unlike in China, your parents aren't going to pull you out of school to work on the land.

[gordyslovesheep]

I don't disagree with you X2boys

[gordyslovesheep]

The facts are based on educational attainment and family income - there is a high enough correlation between low income and low attainment for it to be considered an issue worth addressing

I am not sure you know every single child on PP in your area ! sorry

[Hakluyt]

I live in a selective area. The grammar school last year had no (count them-0) children who attracted Pupil Premium.

The High School had more than 30%.(can't remember the exact figure-31.something)

I don't think any more needs to be said, really.

(And before anyone asks, the schools are about a mile apart, so no travel issues. And there is no other school- it's either/or)

[x2boys]

And ido agree with you about mainstream Gordy it has been made abudently clear to me that my son is not wanted in mainstream. .

[Retropear]

The point being......

The point as I see it is extra money for a few school trips,fsm and other things will have buggar all impact if parents don't ensure their kids have a good work ethic,take school seriously etc.

Parenting and attitude(which cost nothing) have the biggest impact.It is insulting to infer poverty equals failure.It doesn't all round the world.

The fact that Gove seems oblivious to this is frankly worrying.Or maybe he is well aware but thinks continual pp declarations lets him off the hook as to actually doing something.

[Retropear]

Hak many parents don't bother even putting their dc for grammar schools as they can't be arsed or simply aren't interested.

Again it's attitude.

[gordyslovesheep]

It's horrible isn't it x2boys - a lot of kids with behavioural issues will end up excluded and in pupil referral units or they will struggle through mainstream and achieve very little.

[gordyslovesheep]

maybe retro it's because the Grammar seems completely alien to them? Full of 'posh' kids and rich parents and they feel their child would not fit in, or they can't afford the uniform, trips, extra activities etc

Lots of poor kids who go to grammar still don't do well - because they are like fish out of water

My mum left with no qualifications - and was referred to by her teacher as 'the back street slut' all through school

My friend never went on to university because they where all give Uca forms to 'take home and fill in' and no one in her family had the slightest idea what they where

[Retropear]

And this attitude from others that grammar schools are for rich kids doesn't help one iota.

[x2boys]

It is Gordy I am already seeing this one child I.n My older sons class was excluded and his mother was/asked to keep him off school when offered visited because he too had behavioral difficulties largely due to his ASD he was six at the time he is now thankfully at a specialist ASD school which is out of area and doing very well I see very little inclusion in mainstream ? .

[Hakluyt]

"And this attitude from others that grammar schools are for rich kids doesn't help one iota."

It's not an attitude. It is currently a reality. A reality that initiatives like Pupil Premium is trying to change.

If that is the reality in a selective area, the same must apply to the top sets in comprehensive areas.

[x2boys]

Regarding grammar schools depending on where you are in the country they are not always available in my Lea they have not been available for twenty plus years.

[AgaPanthers]

It is mostly attitude.

Lots of immigrant groups are typically poor but outperform white British children, despite often speaking English as a second language.

The worst performers, aside from gypsies and travellers, are working class white children. Middle class white children do very well.

Projects in poor areas with high immigrant populations have been very effective in engaging parents who might not even speak English, and pass rates in many such schools are very high.

Similar efforts in places like West Yorkshire, Liverpool, etc. where the population is mostly white British, have been far less effective.

Yes, money is needed to tackle these issues, but it's much more than that, it's about children from homes where there is no culture of education, and no sense that it is valuable.

[x2boys]

Offsted not offered damned autocorrect !

[gordyslovesheep]

Retro it's just the way people see it (I work in education btw - I do not go round bashing grammar schools in my working life - but fact is, round here, they are not stuffed to the gills with poor kids)

If you know NO ONE on your estate who has gone there you are not going to consider it as being 'for you'

I know some like everything to be down to personal failings but maybe society has an impact on the people living in it

Mainstream can't cope x2 - the money they have is being squeezed. My own daughter was excluded 3 times for behaviour and almost lost her school place - we had to fight hard with CAMH's support to get the school to increase support - she has improved massively but she has almost continuous 1-1 support

[MyFairyKing]

Anecdote does not equal data. The statistics show that children in the UK from lower income families do not perform as well

[gordyslovesheep]

if education repeatedly fails you and tells you you are not worth investing in it's not surprising it's not valued

many families I work with have parents who left school 'with nowt' and 'didn't do too badly' - one or both parents in low waged low skilled work but 'getting by'

because they are 'getting by' they see their education as pointless - as they still got work

thing is times have changed and low skilled work is more difficult to get - most jobs require some qualifications

Their kids are finding they can't 'get by' without a basic education

it's not poor attitude it's life experience - if life teaches you that education isn't important you wont see it was important

[Retropear]

Hak sorry you're wrong.Grammar schools do not only contain rich kids,pedalling that myth puts families off who could easily have a decent chance.

Grammars vary as does intake.Not being in receipt of pp doesn't equal rich.I would say those who attempt to get in will collectively be interested and have high expectations as to their children but that doesn't cost anything.