Why are poor children considered a lost cause

[mrsbucketxx]

I had my ds's new school induction yesterday and there attitude to families who are less well off really shocked me, if you earn less than 16k your child will receive extra dupport in their education more help at home etc.

Aibu to think they are saying if your poor you have less intellegent children, or you are less likely as a parent to support your childs education at home.

Help with lunches yes
Help witn paying for trips yes

I dont think extra staff and home support is needed it would look like a slap in the face as a parent just cause I dont earn as much.

Or am I being extra sensitive.

[gordyslovesheep]

I don't mind being a Goody

it isn't attitude - it's life and life experience. You know what you live - your views are based on what you see and what you experience.

Projects like Aim Higher try and change what you see and introduce new experiences

[TheLovelyBoots]

It's merely a blunt instrument for gauging children most at risk.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

I think in some areas there is also the issue of nursery places being few and far between as they are all taken with the free hours for two year olds.

No one begrudges that child the chance to do better in life but there's no denying it makes life a lot harder for those trying to work who can't get child care

[Prelude]

There are always exceptions. DH and I are both carers and our two children have their own rooms. We are down to fewer than ten thousand books now that we all have tablets

I am a former teacher. DH has a masters and was a higher rate tax payer until DC2 was diagnosed.

Our housing association is always sending us details of literacy courses

[MrsCakesPremonition]

An example of how a school might spend the money might be
"individual and small group tuition in English and mathematics for pupils in
Years 4, 5 and 6; an extended day for targeted pupils in the form of a breakfast and support session run by the learning mentor; and new laptop computers to support learning. Money was also spent on support for improving attendance and on music tuition."

Ofsted issued a document investigating how PP is spent and identifying good practice.

[gordyslovesheep]

My Grandfather was living in 2 rooms with his mum and 2 siblings - his mum worked shifts and left the kids unattended. SS where informed and they where removed

My Grandfather ended up at The Bluecoat School in Liverpool and received an education he would never have had chance of ordinarily

After the war it meant he could train as a teacher and not go on to be a labourer as he would have been expected to

Education can give people the chance to change their futures and gives people more opportunities - this is what he learned and what he passed on to us

[Retropear]

Hak let's just say it was in a time before kids and families were taught that it didn't matter if you didn't do well at school,in a time before the state picked up the pieces if they didn't and in a time when no money equalled no food.

I have no wish to return to that time and I'm happy poorer families are helped more however I think some parents are absolving themselves of responsibility far too much as to the education and achievement of their children.

Poverty doesn't have to equal lack of achievement,other ethnic groups show that- loud and clear.

You can chuck however much money you want at the problem but if parents don't teach their parents that their schooling is critical,that they need to have sleep,limited screen time,a good attitude and put in hard graft it's pointless.

[gordyslovesheep]

but that is singling people out which is divisive - better to take a blanket approach to avoid stigma

[MyFairyKing]

As a general rule - within which there will always be exceptions - children from lower income backgrounds do not perform as well as their higher income counterparts. It's not saying that these children are less intelligent, just that their circumstances may mean that they don't get as many opportunities.

If anything, I think the pupil premium should be widened. LEAs are trying to redress the balance and offer opportunities. This is a great thing and we should be proud of it.

[gordyslovesheep]

Retro SOME people in some ethnic groups do better - but it's not all of them - poverty has a massive impact on families

lots of poor white kids do okay (girls do way better than boys)

but one of the key factors in predicting educational attainment is income - that is a fact - so you support those who have a higher statistical chance of 'failing'

which is why the same thing applies to looked after children

[gordyslovesheep]

LEAs are trying to redress the balance and offer opportunities. This is a great thing and we should be proud of it

also ^ this

[x2boys]

Children with asd and learning difficulties generally don't do as well either but nobody offered my sons nursery place at two if fact we were categorically told we learnt to much I don't think this is at all fair !

[x2boys]

Earnt not learnt !

[Hakluyt]

"Hak let's just say it was in a time before kids and families were taught that it didn't matter if you didn't do well at school,in a time before the state picked up the pieces if they didn't and in a time when no money equalled no food."

Wow. Before the welfare state! You must be even older than I am.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

I suspect that the staff used the information evening to make parents aware of the eligibility criteria for FSM, and to encourage eligible parents to apply even if they intend to use packed lunches...because the PP is linked to successful applications for FSM, not children actually eating FSM.

They probably needed to explain why the school benefits from PP and what PP is.

I know that parents at my DCs school are broadly unaware of who is eligible for FSM and that the school gets (quite significant) amounts of extra money associated with children eligible for FSM.
I think that the school has a duty to explain this to parents.

[gordyslovesheep]

if you earnt too much you could pay for nursery - I did!

also with a statement or EHCP your child would get additional funding in education - and additional support - like kids with the PP

[imip]

Maybe somewhat off topic, but in the book outliers, there is an interesting study comparing children from low and higher socio-economic backgrounds. It basically said that there was lower educational attainment in children of lower socio-economic backgrounds despite them having equal levels of educational achievement at a younger age. The theory was that in high socio-economic groups during the summer holidays the children were still read to, in a family where education was important, kids may have gone on educational summer camps. He wasn't denying that kids of all groups would have had a great holiday, but that the focus of the holiday might have been different.

It was an interesting read.

I come from quite a poor family with very low aspirations. I also come from a country with high social mobility. My siblings have been blighted with mental health problems, I am the only one that has experienced social mobility compared to my siblings. There for the grace of god go I...

[x2boys]

Could nt afford it Gordy we worked shifts around each other and he is only just getting a statement now my point being that children with special needs are also vulnerable often more so than children from low income backgrounds we don't have a huge income I,m a staff nurse dh is on nmw we could never afford nursery fees.

[BreconBeBuggered]

With the free school meals for infants being introduced, schools have to find some way of motivating eligible parents to apply for something they're already getting. This is probably the motivation behind the low income spiel.
Bear in mind that small group work for defined categories of children, whether they need extra help or extension work, will mean the rest of the class by default gets to work in smaller classes too.

[gordyslovesheep]

I know I have 2 children with SEN - but funding exists for them already (via school action plus and statements)

that this is inadequate and now being changed and reduced is a different discussion and I know it's not great

Did you know the guidelines for the new EHCP mean that 'autism' can't be included as a disability and behavioural needs are not even on the new form? Getting support for children with SEN is getting harder - but my own view is that this is because the current education secretary doesn't want them in mainstream schools

but that doesn't mean PP shouldn't exist

[MyFairyKing]

x2boys I agree with you. SEN provision remains an on-going problem. I do think it should be separate from the pupil premium but I don't know what the answer is. We cannot make it universal because some children with SEN will need more funding and support than others. It's a postcode lottery and still very hit and miss. It is something that is talked about an awful lot but limited progress is made.

[deakymom]

really hating the entire "poor children" don't do well my daughter is top of her class we are poor even when working like most families she still does well

there is a big difference between poor finances and poor parenting