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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that the war on drugs did not kill this girl

36 replies

AgaPanthers · 23/06/2014 12:00

Link: www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/22/mother-fights-against-war-on-drugs-anne-marie-cockburn-martha-fernback

From the article:

"On 17 July 1971 the US president, Richard Nixon, announced what has become known as the war on drugs, instigating an unrelenting campaign that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

On the same date, 42 years later, in north Oxford, Martha Fernback, 15, and a friend bought a plastic sachet holding a crystallised gram of MDMA for £40 from a dealer. It was no impulse buy. Martha's online history revealed she had meticulously researched the risks of the drug and opted to buy its most expensive variant, assuming the better quality it was, the safer it would be.

One of the myriad ramifications of Nixon's hardline stance has meant buying drugs is a fraught and risk-laden business: users do not know what they are taking. In Martha's case better quality meant greater purity. She had no idea that her batch was 91% pure compared with an average street level of 58%. Around lunchtime on 20 July last year Martha swallowed her 0.5 gram and within two hours was dead, the MDMA inducing cardiac failure."

It doesn't seem to me that her research was meticulous, nor that the purity of the drug was a problem.

A google search for 'mdma dosage' gives this page as the first result:

www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_dose.shtml and it says that for small or sensitive people the dosage is 60-90mg, and for larger people 110-150mg.

So obviously if you bought 1g of pure MDMA and split it with a friend (presumably without the aid of a proper milligram scales, so the actual dose could have been higher still perhaps 0.6g or more) and then consumed the whole lot, then there was no question that you had taken far too much, whether purity was 58% or 91% especially given that MDMA is crystalline as compared to ecstasy which comes in a tablet form (and hence cut with caking agents, etc. to turn it into a pill), and tends to be much purer anyway.

People die from overdosing on alcohol, which is perfectly legal, so I'm not sure where the war on drugs comes into this.

She bought crystal MDMA, presumably on the basis that it tends to be purer, and less likely to be cut with other things, and then consumed far too much of it.

Educating people about dosages would be helpful, not saying that the problem is the variable quality of the product, which in this case it clearly wasn't.

OP posts:
AMumInScotland · 23/06/2014 12:11

If it could be proved that pure unadulterated MDMA, in controlled portion sizes, had no medical risks, then they might have a point.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, therefore making it difficult for people to buy it is a statistically better bet than making it legal.

Her 15yo chose to buy an illegal drug, and died as a result. I get that she's hurting and wants someone to blame, but she's picking the wrong target. If it was legal, many many more teenagers would die of it.

gingee · 23/06/2014 12:17

I think she's just looking perhaps for some sort of reasoning in a horrible horrible situation where her dd has made a massive mistake and paid dearly for it. Legalizing drugs isn't the answer.
I think the poor Mum probably feels incredibly guilty and probably very sad and angry that her dd died from doing drugs which leaves her with a legacy that she did it to herself, sort of marring her dd's memory in a way, and is trying to find some sort of blame to place elsewhere.

AgaPanthers · 23/06/2014 12:22

Statistically I don't think MDMA is particularly lethal, although it obviously does kill some people.

But legalisation wouldn't stop people overdosing, a problem which is prevalent for drugs like this because they take an hour or so to onset (leading people to take more 'just in case'), and because it's so easy to consume (cf. alcohol where you physically have to drink large volumes, here it's potentially just a pinch of crystals in your hand).

Lots of people already take MDMA, and few die.

I don't know how parents of teenagers who have died from drinking too much alcohol respond.

OP posts:
Damnautocorrect · 23/06/2014 12:27

What we are doing now isn't working. I can certainly see the reasoning, it can be tested and produced so you'd know what your taking (although wouldn't know the affect on your body). It can be taxed, age and dosage limits applied. The taxation could pay for much better education on it

I'm not sure I see a difference between alcohol, tobacco and drugs.
I don't agree with legalising it but I can certainly see the argument for it

YouTheCat · 23/06/2014 12:28

Of my dd's friends, more of them have ended up in hospital because of drugs rather than alcohol and, of the drugs cases, almost all of them had taken MDMA.

It is our responsibility to educate our children about drugs, alcohol and give them the confidence to say 'no thanks'.

I do feel so sorry for the woman whose daughter died though.

CorusKate · 23/06/2014 12:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

specialsubject · 23/06/2014 12:31

how very sad. There really is no-one to blame except the child though.

the child did something stupid and paid the ultimate penalty. All that can be done is to keep telling kids that the stuff is dangerous and can kill just like that. Perhaps the next kid seeking the silly thrill will read that, and maybe decide that there are better ways.

AgaPanthers · 23/06/2014 12:36

specialsubject, I don't think that argument works though. People will see their friends doing it, in large numbers, and they will see 'they are not dying, they are having a great time', and just ignore those arguments.

And then they will see the adults seeking the silly thrill of getting pissed, night after night, on alcohol, and think 'seems to me like drugs are a-ok in our society'.

In this case it was fairly simple: she took far too much MDMA, had she took a normal dosage it's unlikely she would have died.

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 23/06/2014 12:37

The only thing legalising drugs would help solve is the obesity crisis and ageing population and over population, if enough women of child baring age use them.

It would solve the "problem" of people living with disabilities, especially from Birth, or MH issues, but that can be lied easily enough about.

A bag of Weed is cheaper than a bag of good food and makes people not give a fuck about what policies are being bought in, I'm amazed the Tories haven't legalised drugs tbh.

PeachandRaspberry · 23/06/2014 12:38

This woman is getting quite prominent, I've read a few articles about her. Sadly I think that her daughter did something dangerous and it went badly, badly wrong. I don't think it's a case to legalise drugs at all.

YouTheCat · 23/06/2014 12:41

Even if drugs were legalised I'd expect there would be an age limit (18 or 21 upwards perhaps) so kids would still be wanting to get hold of drugs illegally and there would still be a risk.

This girl might still have taken too much.

dawndonnaagain · 23/06/2014 12:41

She thought she was taking a normal dose.
The point is, if it were legal it would be more easily regulated. Even the chap that wrote the controlled drugs act felt that actually, parts of it were wrong and they misjudged it. That was twenty years ago, were he still alive I have no doubt that he would feel more strongly about it now. Until we grow up as a society and understand that no matter what, people are going to do these things, and therefore legalise, we have no control and will never have control if things do not change.

CorusKate · 23/06/2014 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

7Days · 23/06/2014 12:47

I don't think that argument stands, tbh. Guaranteeing the quality and standards of alcohol, and giving guidelines on safe quantities to take hasn't done much to curb binge drinking and all the health & social implications of that.

The line that we already have an alcohol problem, therefore we should treat other intoxicants in exactly the same manner isn't a great argument.

AgaPanthers · 23/06/2014 12:53

"She thought she was taking a normal dose."

She definitely wasn't though, half a gram is not a normal dose even of poor-quality stuff. That's why I don't understand why it says her research was meticulous, nobody would tell you that was a normal quantity.

OP posts:
Latara · 23/06/2014 13:25

Would illegal drugs be any safer if they were legalized though?

Alcohol and tobacco are legal yet they can affect health in many negative ways and can kill.

Taking drugs is like a lottery - for example a person can take the same amount of cocaine as a friend from the same source and have a cardiac event, yet their friends may be fine (I've seen it happen when I was a student nurse).

whois · 23/06/2014 13:32

She definitely wasn't though, half a gram is not a normal dose even of poor-quality stuff

Um, I'm sure a lot of revellers could tell you that half a 'g' (which is more likely to be 0.7 to 0.8g) or standard stuff is actually a fairly normal dose.

0.1g dose taken repeatedly 4 times over one long night wouldn't be abnormal. You'd be pretty happy and smashed but not unusual.

Anyway, mdma's toxicity is actually reasonably low. It's one of the safer drugs re toxicity. Unlike PMA which is easier to get into the Uk/produce in the Uk and has a higher toxicity, lower 'good' effects for the same dose and is being sold as MDMA. This is due to the war on drugs, and this is killing people.

dawndonnaagain · 23/06/2014 13:38

7days the reason the argument with regard to alcohol does stand is that one drink isn't likely to kill you (yes, I know it's a possibility but it isn't likely) whereas one dose of a drug cut with rat poision, or made badly or an unregulated dose or whatever, is more likely to kill you than a drink.
There are always going to be people with drug problems, there are always going to be people with alcohol related problems, but lives could be saved if we legalised drugs, thereby regulating production etc.

NeoFaust · 23/06/2014 13:40

I think I remember an article around this issue which stated that the dealer was shocked and distraught, he had no idea that his batch was so potent or that she was taking such a whopping dose. If he had had a licensed vendor and a license to vend (with commensurate training and awareness) this would not have occurred (and the tax would have been welcomed by the Treasury).

As whois says, consuming .5g over the course of night, widely spaced, is not unusual or unsurvivable. Though you'll regret it like hell the next day...

CorusKate · 23/06/2014 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

specialsubject · 23/06/2014 13:58

Agapanthers fair point -teens do think they are invincible. Although I didn't know that this drug could kill in such a small quantity, so perhaps it is worth pointing out.

I'm no drug expert though, always found plenty of other ways to have fun.

not sure the dealer would really be that bothered although it is in his interest to appear to be.

I think birds may be referring to Darwin, at least in part.

littledrummergirl · 23/06/2014 14:06

What birds said.

Personally I dont understand why anyone would take any of these substances and despite many debates with friends I have yet to be convinced.

Who knows what the chemist had been doing with their hands prior to handling the substances, I would be surprised if any of them held a hygiene certificate though. Euugh

CorusKate · 23/06/2014 14:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

7Days · 23/06/2014 14:12

'moralistic pro-drug-war types' is an unnecessary slur CorusKate

Having legal alcohol hasn't solved the alcohol problem
Having illegal drugs hasn't solved the drug problem

recognising that isn't being moralistic or pig headed

there isn't One True Path here

BarbarianMum · 23/06/2014 14:14

I've never heard anyone argue that recreational drugs be made available to the under 16s, so even legalisation wouldn't do away with a market for repackaged / resplit substances of dubious strengths being available.

This poor child died cause she took drugs. Personally I'm quite happy to continue sending out the message that this is not a safe thing to do. MDMA doesn't need to be a normal part of the teen experience any more than binge drinking, glue sniffing or joyriding.