Wibu to ask for a reduction in rent so I can buy 'stuff' due to mould damage (sorry, long!)

[extremepie]

I'm fully prepared to accept I may BU, just thought I'd gather some opinions.

I live in a flat that was recently renovated after being left empty for 18 months. When I moved in the landlady told me that because it had been empty for so long and with all the wet weather we had over the winter it was likely we might have a lot of moisture in the walls etc so might expect some damp issues, but that as the weather warmed up and if we were good about keeping windows open, ventilation etc it should be fine.

We've been living here about 4 months now and the damp problem is pretty bad - in my bedroom there will be pools of water on the windowsill and floor from the condensation, which doesn't seem to improve much whether I keep the windows open or not. The only time it does improve is when I have the window open constantly which, being a ground floor flat, I can't really do!

There are areas of the hallway near the bathroom where there is horrible, furry black mould growing on the walls - this also grows on the wall in my bedroom, on the windowsill in the kitchen, the living room and the kids bedrooms. Ds's bedroom has a big built in cupboard thing in his room and it grows in there too. It grows on the wall behind the sofa and on the back of the sofa itself, it grows on my tv unit and the legs of my table and chairs. It has even grown on the underside of Ds's mattress! It is everywhere!

When the flat was being renovated the landlady said I could choose my own paint for the walls, so I did and painted virtually the whole flat myself. She also let me choose the colours of carpet so I could make it feel like my own (she is lovely :) ). However, since this mould is constantly growing on the walls I have had to scrub it and bleach it so many times that every single room I took considerable expense and time to paint has now got damaged paintwork and in some of the rooms the carpets have marks on from the mould which I cant seem to remove :(

I do feel like it may be partially my fault as I have a tumble dryer, but I have no way to vent it, where the cupboard is for the dryer there is no way to access a window to vent it with a tube, the radiators are electric so I cant dry anything on them and I have no outside space at all (garden, balcony etc) to dry things so I have to use a tumble dryer.

Wibu to ask if I could have a reduction in the rent temporarily to buy a condenser for my tumble dryer and buy new paint to repaint the walls? The only room which is pretty much unscathed by the mould is Ds2's room because I indadvertedly painted his room with bathroom paint (I liked the colour :D), which has an anti mould thing in it so despite his bedroom being right next to Ds's, his room has no mould and Ds2's does. Ideally I'd like to replace Ds's mattress too as I really don't want him sleeping on a mouldy mattress!

I know it isn't her fault about the mould but I'm just getting so fed up with it now, I've gone through bottles and bottles of anti mould sprays and cleaners, keep the windows open as much as I can but it still just grows back within a few weeks!

No, the heated airer doesn't release so much moisture into the air. The heated bars dry the clothes faster and cheaper than a normal airer.

All methods of drying release approximately the same quantity of water into the air, just over different time periods.

Whats an ecoair?

I haven't read all the replies but if I were your landlord I'd be giving you your Section 21 notice sharpish. The damp is completely your fault caused by your tumble drier. You need to get a condensing tumble drier for starters.

It's a kind of dehumidifier with an extra "laundry drying" function. There are threads on here sometimes discussing the best ones and that one is usually recommended, as are a couple others I don't recall off the top of my head, but you should be able to search for them.

Condenser boxes are a bit crap you really need the hose to be going out of the window. You need a condenser dryer - not cheap I know.

I would also buy / hire a dehumidifier asap.

I think you have contributed with your tumble dryer but that the flat has underlying damp issues - you LL basically admitted it when you moved in.

Can you contact the council environmental health to come and assess where the fault lies?

Black mould can really shag your lungs :(

Sorry, can I just clarify - are people suggesting the dehumidifier and a clothes airer in a room as a way of drying the clothes?

Is the cost of running a dehumidifier comparable to the tumble dryer?

Have to say op, I'm sure I've seen people on here before raving about it being a brilliant way of drying clothes and preventing damp. If that's the case I'm changing my advice and think you should sell the tumble dryer to help fund the dehumidifier.

Either way it'll be interesting to see if the condenser box makes any difference at all. I don't think going to the landlady before trying a couple of things is going to help you given that there is evidence of you exacerbating the problem.

Try your best over the summer and if it's still an issue when you've made improvements then get her in.

I'm still not convinced that the tumble dryer will be the cause of it all, it really does sound like there's something deeper going on for it to be affecting so many rooms.

Okay - you have now bought a condenser box to try. Having once switched our tumble dryer on forgetting to put the vent hose out of the window, I know just how much condensation this causes so if the TD has been used repeatedly like this things must have been sopping wet, window open or no.

As a landlord I would be angry if my tenant had done what you have as it will damage things, however there are solutions - my understanding is that condenser boxes make your TD less efficient so you might want to 1) buy a longer vent hose to be able to vent through a window. I have a 5m one I bought from espares; or 2) speak to the landlady about getting a proper vent fitted by knocking a brick out of an external wall. It's a job a decent handyman could do, but will depend on the lease/freehold terms the LL has to abide by as the owner of the flat.

Only by preventing condensation from the TD will you be able to assess whether there is an underlying issue which needs addressing. As others have said. Now is the perfect time to be trying to dry the place out as much as possible. A dehumidifier is a good idea for use in particularly problematic areas that need drying out, but if it needs to be used constantly this suggests there is an underlying issue which needs to be resolved.

Humidity levels should be 50-55% in UK homes. Here is a link to an article about humidity which gives some good guidelines for reducing humidity:

www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertyadvice/9614700/What-is-the-recommended-humidity-for-a-home.html

Hope that helps. Try www.cleanipedia.co.uk for advice on getting mould out of carpet.

I may be cynical, but I wonder if the LL knows, or suspects, there is a damp problem, quite aside from no one having lived there for a long period, and letting you choose the decor and carpets, etc was a sweetener to put you off complaining.

I have a property that I let out which was always prone to mould when I lived there - maybe suggest she put in a positive pressure ventilation system? They work really well.

There seem to be different kinds growing in different rooms? One is the kitchen, the other is Ds' bedroom

It is amazing how much water comes out of clothes when you dry them. We've got a condenser dryer so we get to see exactly how much comes out as we empty the water trap after each load. No matter how you dry your clothes, that's how much water will come out and you really don't want it trapped in your flat.

Buying a condensor dryer would be cheaper than having to replace all the stuff that's getting ruined by the mould (carpets, mattresses, clothes, curtains, repainting all the walls, etc). Condensor dryers are slightly more expensive than vented ones, but you'll get one for around £200.

In the interim (or alternatively) just move the one you have so it's next to a window and vent it when you use it. It doesn't matter if it looks unsightly in your living room. It's a lot less unsightly (and healthier) than black mould everywhere.

Cornettoninja yes a dehumidifier and airs work quite well to dry clothes. I did two winters with nappies (old school squares) in a flat with no outside drying area.

If I was you I would try to get back to a good point first with the mould - so use the dehumidifier to dry the place out - wash the walls with bleachy water as has been suggested. Mr Muscle anti mould and mildew is good and aldi also do the same but cheaper product. If you can afford a condenser dryer now I would get one or a fking massive 5m hose and run it out the window.

I would try to get back to ground zero before using the dehumidifier as a drying aid. Just to try and find out where you problem is coming from.

As for mattresses and stuff I think you will have to chuck them.

We had a mould issue and we had different types of mould in different rooms too. I'm sure we contributed by drying clothes indoor and having showers (how very dare we) but the house has long term issues - confirmed by neighbours who new the lady who used to own it.

Do your windows have trickle vents? If so make sure they are open all the time. And - are you gutters clear?

I would do your utmost to sort things out then get your LL in and say I have taken all these steps what else can we do.

But - instead of spending cash here could you look to move? I know it may not be possible but if you are looking at £300+ for new appliances... You said you didn't have a deposit which sounds well dodgy but could work in your favour here.

Good luck.

the place was damp when you moved in so the beginning lies with the ll who should have put a dehumidifier in but you moved in so deal --rent a dehumidifier change to a condenser dryer and repaint again with anti mould paint or move and lose your deposit

Dehumidifier is the way forward. I lived in a ground floor flat that was flooded by the people living above when their washing machine went; it made the place horribly damp. I bought a £70 electric dehumidifier from B&Q and ran it constantly for a few weeks; emptying the tank before I went to work, when I got home and before bed. They aren't as expensive to run as people make out; check out the wattage levels and you can calculate the cost. It gradually took out the worst of the damp and I got it back down to a manageable level, then I just ran it when I was drying washing. I still use it now in the winter, even though I'm living in a different house. I put washing on airers and shut it all in one room with the dehumidifier running in there and it dries out much more quickly, without steaming everything up. I wouldn't be without it in a flat with no drying space.

Ok there is something I can't understand. Regardless if the way you are drying clothes, the same amount of water will go in the air.
I would have thought that air drying with in heat means the water is 'released' more slowly so less of a problem as the humid air has more time to 'get out' of the house
But drying clothes on radiators etc should have the same effect?
And as far as I know very few people has black mould growing under the mattress from that.
So why is it different with the setting that the OP describes?
Genuinely curious.

OP I have a raft of questions for you:

Can you give more info on the areas with mould? Are they at floor level and on external walls, for example? Those pictures look very much like rising damp although I'll caveat that by saying I am not an expert. You should contact Environmental Health and see if they will send someone to take a look because it needs sorting and it is not healthy to live in a damp home. Also get advice from the CAB.

How old is the block of flats and has any work been done which may have breached the damp proof course? E.g. paving or tarmac laid outside. It's also possible there is a damp proof membrance under the flooring which has been damaged and damp is seeping through that. Or it could just be that the damp proofing has failed over time.

The fact you didn't have to give a deposit strengthens for me that I think your LL may be aware there is a serious issue here and wanted to get a tenant in rather than pay for the work required, which although disruptive isn't hugely expensive to actually fix.

Do you have a ground floor next door neighbour and do they have the same problem or not? If not, have they had the damp proofing re-done recently? Your LL may find that sorting out the problem is something the management company (highly likely to be the owners themselves) needs to address as it affects the fabric of the building and therefore all the flats - in the same way a leaking roof would. Sorry if you have stated it in the thread, but I don't know if you are in a flat in a house conversion or a purpose built flat.

You need a a dehumidifer and you need to stop using a vented dryer without venting it. The moisture levels in your flat are clearly very high and I think your laundry habits have been a major contributor to that.
You should be worried about the health problems associated with damp and mould. The paint is the least of your worries.
I run a dehumidifier and it collects about 3 litres every 10 hours that it is switched on and our house isn't even damp. It isn't that expensive to run and is certainly cheaper than renewing paint, mattresses and clothing due to them being ruined by damp. I think our dehumidifer costs 1 or 2p an hour to run and it cost us £130 to purchase. My families health comes before the cost of a dehumidifier though so it is a small price to pay.
You should not be asking your landlord to pay for any damage because your habits have significantly contributed to the problem. I know you say that you haven't ruined any of the landlords stuff because you paid for the paint but damp causes more problems than black patches on paintwork. Damp can affect the integrity of the plasterwork and can affect the floorboards and skirting boards etc and is very expensive to put right.

You have to get some dehumidifiers, a heat, and a fan , vent the dryer out a window, maybe this would work?

I'd move, though would be sure to kill the mold and paint with a mildew resistant paint. That is unhealthy.
If it wasn't for the dryer, you could have had it all fixed and replaced what was ruined by her insurance.

I can't move tbh as we only moved here in feb, got a loan from the council to help pay for moving in and (apart from the damp) it is really ideal for us, 5 mins from the school, right next to the bus stop etc! That's why I don't mind investing the money and time in repainting, carpets etc as we plan on being here for a while I just don't want to constantly have to repaint, I'd rather sort out the root of the problem!

Wow, the areas with mould are all either at the bottom of the wall/in the corners of rooms or on the windowsills, not the sills themselves as they are tiled but the walls around the windows IYSWIM. They are all external walls that are affected.

The flat is one of 3 or 4 but its in a converted shop rather than a purpose built block so to speak, no idea how old the building is but I think it has granite walls so reasonably old.

As far as I know there has been no work done on the road/pavement outside and we don't have gutters as such on our flat they are on the upstairs flat so no idea as to the condition of them I'm afraid :/

The flat was completely renovated before we moved in, all the external walls relined with insulation boards, extensive replastering, new kitchen and bathroom and obviously all the decorating. I don't know if it's significant but there were 2 damp patches on interior walls near the bathroom before we moved in that the LL said would dry out but haven't yet - they aren't any worse just no better!

So far all the plaster and woodwork is sound but obviously I don't want it to get bad!

Will look into a dehumidifier, I do think it would help a lot I just really can't afford one right now :(

Have you l

Sorry on a tablet!

Have you looked around the flat from them outside? We had similar looking damp problems in the extension of our house when we moved in because the stupid previous owner had built up flower beds which were higher than the damp course and so the moisture could get in

Dehumidifier

Its not rocket science.

I have a condenser dryer and it collects a lot of water after each load. It's a bit daft to have a vented dryer in a confined space as there's no where for the water vapour to go to, other than in the air.

Saying this though, if the flat was previously mouldy and all your LL has done is paint over it, it's going to come back. What she needed to do was replaster and coat it in mould preventing paint, before repainting it. Cleaning it off and repainting it just covers it over, it doesn't solve the problem so it may not be because of the dryer.

Are you not able to move the dryer to another room so that you can put the hose out of a window? I have my fridge freezer in my dining room because it won't fit in the kitchen, sometimes you have to put things in silly places because they are the most practical.

It all looks fairly normal from the outside Liz, the flat opens right out on to the pavement in the front and backs onto other parts of the building at the back, its attached to another flat on one side and has an alleyway with access to the back flat on the other side - all looks pretty standard but then I don't know what to look for :D