AIBU to hope my sister doesn't have children?

[SugarMiceInTheRain]

Ok, before you flame me - my sister has a lot of issues. There's a lot of history but I'll try to keep it brief. I saw her for the first time in three years at my grandmother's funeral a week ago. My first thought was that she had aged about 20 years in the past 3. This is due to drug use. She's always been very in favour of legalising cannabis, but I'm certain she's using harder drugs than that these days. She has spent the last 15 years wasting her life, dossing about, doing the odd gig for which she gets paid very little. She has severe OCD, for which she refuses to seek help and other MH issues. The funeral was overshadowed by her attention seeking dramas, and it made me sad that we couldn't just mourn my grandmother's death/ celebrate her life, without tiptoeing around my sister/ keeping her apart from certain family members who she has taken against for no reason etc.

Anyway, at the funeral I introduced her to my new baby and she kept going on about how broody she is and how she's desperate to start a family. She has had an on-off relationship with a married man 15-20 years her senior for the past few years, who keeps saying he loves her then running back to his wife and kids. AIBU to think that having kids is the last thing she should do? She has been saying she's broody for quite a while and the thought of her bringing a child into the chaotic life she leads fills me with horror. I was surprised at how strongly I felt about this, and don't know if it's just me being judgey about her situation, given that she has had every opportunity to lead a much more stable life and has actively chosen to sabotage her chances at every turn.

We all have a "bad parent" inside us. No-one is perfect. It sometimes feels good to project this bad part that we fear we might have onto someone else. eg, "What an awful parent, what a chaotic life, I would never be like that." etc. I suspect that there is a bit of this going on. Therefore YABU.

YANBU. I'd feel the same in your position.

I think on MN there is a bit of a taboo about having a very difficult or downright awful sibling, whereas weirdly if you have a toxic mother or MIL everyone will be queuing up to tell you to go no contact. The plain fact is that through trauma, personality or whatever some people seem to be very destructive and the best thing you can do is avoid them. I have a friend with a sister just like this, extremely attention-seeking, at the centre of family dramas, with huge issues, drawn to risky or negative environments or people but never seeks help or changes anything- it's awful and my friend openly says she doesn't like her, even if she does love her. The thought of a child coming into that lifestyle is worrying- you can't help if you have a reaction to that.

It isn't your business though, and it's not up to you to comment.

I think being a mother is enshrined as a right on MN and anyone being judgy about the type of mother you are is flamed.

It is ironic that there are also lots and lots of posts from people terribly upset and damaged by the situations they grew up in

Parenthood is a major responsibility which a lot of people don't want once they have it

You know your sister and YANBU to have your feelings.

^Parenthood is a major responsibility which a lot of people don't want once they have it^

Actually I'll amend that to which a lot of people are not capable of fulfilling

I think it's the hardest job in the world.

I'd feel the same as you and am pretty certain my family felt that way when I was expecting dc1 at 16 years old.

I don't think people with mental health issues shouldn't have children, I don't think it's ever certain that, even with treatment, those issues will ever just 'disappear'. However, I think if you are struggling with mental ill health and want a baby, you should probably prioritise seeking help before doing so.

Also, just wanted to say, she shouldn't have been expected to 'get over' her OCD so you could have a hassle free christmas but she shouldn't have expected you to put her up if it was likely to make things crappy for her nieces and nephews.

'I'd just point out that it is pretty messy having a baby. Not for someone with OCD really.'

I'm with LittleM and would be interested in what you meant by that Merry.

I've got OCD etc and having DC was the best thing that ever happened to me, I was fucked up and chaotic, then calmed down and had children, just like lots of other people. I think I'm not doing too bad a job, but then I'm a bit paranoid too So who knows eh?

Lots of parents, with and without MH problems, are fucked up, and lots of parents with MH problems aren't and can live happy and successful lives.

Saying that though, I'm glad my brother (who hasn't got MH probs) hasn't had children fucking hell, knowing him as I do that would be terrible for the children.

I've never come across a parent who manages to tick every single box, we're all just making the best of what we've got, like your sister is.

I think that comment, zigzag, was based on the common, boring misconception that OCD sufferers' lives revolve around cleanliness and tidiness.

Yeah, maybe Vampy. Although I thought it could also be that it's messy having children, but not for someone with OCD who will be cleaning up anyway

The organizational/controlling bit of the OCD (I don't have a problem with germs) can be really useful though, it gets me off my arse to get things back under control.

I hate my OCD, it's just stupid and makes me look stupid. It's gotten a lot less time consuming over the years and now it's just a few 'rituals' and looking at/touching something a certain amount of times not in any way helpful. I wish I was super tidy.

From your last post it sounds like she has serious mental health problems and she needs help. There's obviously more to your story but from your posts it seems you have little empathy or awareness of her situation, just frustration of how this affects you

I don't hate mine anymore Vampy, it's just the rest of me I can't stand

But it does makes me feel ridiculous and is such an unbelievable waste of fucking time.

A 'fucking waste of time' maybe sounds better than 'a waste of fucking time'

I don't tend to measure my days in fucking time any more

it COULD be seen as a waste of fucking time though - at the moment, I'd rather be obsessively checking that the windows are closed, personally!

Yanbu for the hypothetical children's sake.

I think being a mother is enshrined as a right on MN and anyone being judgy about the type of mother you are is flamed. It is ironic that there are also lots and lots of posts from people terribly upset and damaged by the situations they grew up in. Parenthood is a major responsibility which a lot of people don't want once they have it. You know your sister and YANBU to have your feelings.

Well put FastForward.

There is also a belief that when the cute wicko baby arrives all will be well, that might be true up to a point, everyone loves a cute baby but without proper parenting that cute baby can become a truly messed up adult. Sad and lonely and messing up others' lives.

YANBU Some people have absolutely no intention of seeing sense, seeking some help and getting back on ytheir feet again, your sister sounds like one of them.

You probably haven't bothered with her for years because you were sick of picking up the pieces again and again! I know ive been there, there is only do much you can take. Everyone has their limit!

bursting into tears and being sick because she thought one of us had touched her bag

My comment was based on anticipating that kind of thing.

Not that people with OCD shouldn't have children, but should be realistic about whether they really want them.

I have MH issues (mild) and it makes my parenting much more difficult. I can imagine if they were worse, it would make my parenting extremely difficult. I just think people should be as aware as they can be of the realities of having children before they go ahead with it. Of course, anyone can be a fantastic parent if they really want to be one.

bursting into tears and being sick because she thought one of us had touched her bag
OK that does sound like a pretty severe mental health problem.....
of course having kids could 'cure' her but not fair to the kids to find out.

There are lot of judgy people on THIS thread accusing the OP of being judgy.

OP, I feel for you. You despair over a sibling who is like this, but there is nothing you can do. While they are only hurting themselves its their problem, in the end. But when they hurt a child......

My DNiece asked me if I could help her leave home when she was 16 because my DSis is an alcoholic and she couldn't cope anymore.

This is the same niece that I had tried to get away for many, many years but the rest of my family were 'oh no, your DSis loves her DC, they are her hope, they are her salvation, blah, blah, blah'. I live on the other side of the world so couldn't really do much more than be an there for DNiece prior to this. But at that point I moved quickly, DNiece is out of that house now and living with another sibling, and so much happier. DNephew..... I fear may be a lost cause and I am sad to say appears to be following in his mother's steps.

"OP, I feel for you. You despair over a sibling who is like this, but there is nothing you can do. While they are only hurting themselves its their problem, in the end. But when they hurt a child......"

No child has been hurt. The OP sister dreams of having children as many of us do or have done. In an ideal world a parent wouldn't have OCD, but we don't live in la la land.

Having a mental illness does not necessarily mean that someone is unfit to be a mother. Some mental illnesses are incurable and the suffer has to learn to live with their condition. Having a disablitiy does not make someone bad or even an incompetant parent. Saying that disabled people should not have children is frightening. How perfect do you have to be to be allowed to breed?

There are a lot of evil people in the world who have never suffered mental illness.

Reallytired, I think the key point here is that the OP's dsis has a mental illness but has not sought help or used the help she has been offered by her family to create more stability in her life. Perhaps she does not even acknowledge her MH issue to herself. That is most likely going to have a terrible outcome for a child.

Untreated MH problems coupled with suspected hard drug use is a very different scenario to someone with a mental illness that they have under control having a child.

People with untreated MH problems probably shouldn't have kids until they get those issues squared away first.

I have problems with that statement. There are lots of different types of MH problem and there are not always solutions to those problems. Therefore its not always possible for someone to get those issues squared away first and I dislike the generalised view that a woman with MH problems is not fit to be a mother.

Becoming pregnant might be a catalyst to getting some problems resolved or at the very least, acknowledged. Pregnancy is a time when women have most contact with HCP so its a good opportunity to build a relationship and trust with them. It can be a starting point to get the much needed support that someone needs.

Obviously this isn't true for everyone, but I do think its wrong to simply write someone off as being a capable parent on the basis of their mental health. There are lots of people who have mental health issues, but are fabulous parents.

I think that the view that mental health issues = unfit parent are very dated and very ignorant tbh. Its something that should be judged only by those who know the individual in question in a professional health capacity.

"Reallytired, I think the key point here is that the OP's dsis has a mental illness but has not sought help or used the help she has been offered by her family to create more stability in her life. "

What we don't know of course is whether the OP has actually been diagnosed with a mental illness or whether the OP has diagnosed her sister via Dr Google. If the OP sister has a DEFINATE diagnosis then she will be offered support by the community midwife. Most areas have a perinatal mental health team to support mothers with mental illness. The OP sister would be supported by a health visitor as well.

We live in the 21st century rather than 1950s. Mothers are not automatically deemed unfit just because their sisters believe that they are derranged.