To be viewing friend differently after this suggestion... Re benefit fraud

[JulietBravoJuliet]

At the minute, I'm renting and claiming a bit of housing benefit as my earnings aren't high. My lovely, wonderful dad has just had some inheritance through from his aunt, which was way, way more than anyone expected (was expecting a fifth of the house sale, but turns out the old girl had LOADS sat in savings accounts which none of the family were aware of) so he has very generously decided to buy me a house of my choosing. We've found a lovely one in the village I currently live in, and have set the ball rolling! Excited much!

Anyway, a good friend of mine has pointed out that as the house will be in my dad's name, and his surname is different to mine, I ought to just carry on claiming HB as no one would be any the wiser and it would be extra "income" for me. Obviously I said no way would I do that, but she seemed genuinely surprised as apparently loads of people do it and how would they know? She even told me you can download pre-printed tenancy agreements off the internet and it's just a matter of putting my dad's signature on the bottom as they never check!

It's really made me question our friendship tbh. I would never, ever commit benefit fraud and I really thought my friend was of the same train of thought. It's genuinely shocked me that she actually thinks this is ok and I'm questioning how well I actually know this person iykwim.

She probably thinks she's doing you a favour making you aware of it, I wouldn't let it change your feelings towards her personally, your friends, it doesn't mean you have to agree with every opinion each other shares.

YANBU, as a tax payer who works bloody hard and claims 0 benefits - not even child benefit - that pisses me right off. I too would be reevaluating this friendship.

YANBU and how nice of your Dad, I hope you are very happy in your new home

I think YANBU to view this friend differently. We have a similar situation with friends who have blatantly committed insurance fraud, for a very large sum of money and cannot see the problem in it. They also have an odd money grabbing way with money and currently have a council judgment against them to try and reclaim money taken from an old DP who initially was living with them but went into residential care. Again, they don't see what they have done wrong. We have distanced ourselves from them as a result.
Basically it is theft and happens at all levels PMs so you are NBU to view your friend differently since she seems quite happy for something like this to be going on.

Would you being paying your dad rent? If so it's totally above board and not benefit fraud, I do this myself and the council are well aware of the situation - it is made slightly easier by the fact my dad was already a landlord, but all you do is fill in a slightly longer form.
If you don't tell the council you're related then that is benefit fraud.
It might be worth it for your dad, even not to live off but to build up a pension pot or something?
I love living in a house owned by my dad, most attentive landlord ever! I suppose the only difference would be, if I moved out then another tenant would move in, but it doesn't sound like you're in that position?

I think your friend is being naive to think its always fraud, gives you options to consider though

If he's buying you the house, why not just put it in your name and not his?

you can claim but do not pretend you are not related, it will end in tears.

I think your situation is different from Szelis though - your dad is buying you the house as a gift, her dad has his as an investment and presumably needs to pay a mortgage on it.

Yours is an out and out generous gift.

No I won't be paying him rent, he won't hear of it! He's ok money wise; no mortgage or rent himself and a decent pension plus savings. I can't believe he's doing this for me!

Very lucky and what a lovely Dad :) enjoy your new home!

I agree with you, it would change how I viewed that person. I'd be distancing myself rather a lot (well, I'm no longer friends at all with someone that sees fit to work and claim all the benefits she possibly can as her boss pays her half her wages as paye and the other half as cash).

It is legal, providing it is not a 'contrived tenancy' and lots of people do it. You would have to pay your DF the 'going rate', rent wise. Immoral in your situation however, IMHO.

BIL and SIL rent their house to his DM who is on HB, so effectively, the tax payer pays their mortgage for them (they now live abroad and bought their house a long time ago, so the HB more than covers all of their fairly small mortgage).

However, if he dies or needs nursing care, they would be looking at his assets for inheritence tax or to pay for the care, and that might threaten the security of your home.

I would just look on my good fortune, without trying to squeeze out extra that you don't strictly need - you are still getting a 'free' house, after all.

Not often we hear of parents like this on MN! How wonderful! Fingers crossed it all goes through for you op.

You friend could have your interest at heart, have you worked out the technical details, such as who pays for repairs and insurance?

Will the house be willed to you?

What your rights are if you want to live with someone etc?

Is there a very good reason why the house isn't going in your name, or will that be the one that is sold if your Dad needs nursing care?

Or effect any current benefit entitlements of yours.

She may be thinking that it will give you a level of protection.

To start with, you say your Dad is buying you a house of your choosing, but then go on to say it will be in his name. So presumably that means he's just buying you a house to live in?

I don't mean to rain on your parade (honest!) but have you thought about the implications for your long term future if his financial situation changes? If he needs to pay for a care home, the authorities could force a sale, leaving you homeless. Unless he makes a will leaving it to you, it could form part of his estate and again, a sale could be forced.

Regarding your friend, she's also trying to drag your Dad into committing benefit fraud! I'd be looking at her in a different light, too.

OP, you and your Dad should probably get legal advice on the implications of inheritence tax, care home fees, his or your bankruptcy, and anything else I may not have thought of.

If it is his intention that you have a stable home, you wouldn't want any of the above to threaten this. It would be worth the few hundred pounds it cost for peace of mind.

Also agree with him about repairs and buildings insurance. Can you afford these yourself? What if you want major work that is not strictly 'necessary' like a new kitchen or bathroom?

""Regarding your friend, she's also trying to drag your Dad into committing benefit fraud! ""

Or she may think that the OP would be better as a paying tenant, which would give her a greater stability, long term.

You can rent from family members, even when claiming HB, but it could be a nominal rent which could be put aside incase of mahout building work being needed.

There are lots of possible endings to the T&C of the OP living in the house. Formalising the arrangement would be be beneficial incase the OPs Dad develops any form of MH/Neurological condition.

The OP should have a written agreement.

"major building work".

If you aren't paying rent then your friend does sound a bit dodge, ours was an outright purchase too (initially when I could afford the rent) but the rent is an income/commercial venture so it's ok, not in your case I see.

I second pp though, the house should be in your name if it's your gift, otherwise it leaves you open to all sorts of bother in the future. If it's to be your house it should be truely your house, so you can be properly secure

You're very fortunate to have a parent that can/will do this for you OP.

I'm against benefit fraud, but please don't judge your friend too harshly.

OnIlkley makes some very good points too.

Yanbu but yy to legal advice about the house should something happen.

Dad has had legal advice and the house is to be in trust for me. He has a fully paid for house himself plus some savings which would be sold if he needed nursing care, but, being as I'll have a spare bedroom, the first choice would be to move him in with me if it ever comes to that.

He's looked into IHT planning, as this inheritance takes him over the threshold, but as my mum didn't utilise her allowance when she died, he's been told this passes to him, so he's ok on that count. I'm an only child, so no one is likely to contest his will or anything.

I think the reason he's keeping it in his name is to protect me if I meet anyone and remarry as I got ripped off horrendously by my EA ex and lost my house because of his debts (ended up selling it to keep us afloat as he had run up so much debt and couldn't see a way out) so zero chance of that happening, although I've definitely learnt from my mistakes and would never let that happen again!

Buildings insurance is going to be covered by dad plus any essential repairs. If I want to put in a new kitchen or do an extension, that would be my responsibility to pay for as my choice to do it.

I can't wait to move in! Hate private renting and the instability of it.

YANBU. I think people's attitudes to benefits is an interesting insight into character. PIL's have a house they let out and are so grateful for having tenants that treat it with respect that they were willing to help defraud the state by exaggerating how much they were charging for rent in order for the family to pocket the difference.

Tenants also asked them to write a letter saying they were going to be evicted so that they could increase their chances getting a council house. PILs obliged. Left me absolutely open-mouthed as they are Conservative voters and very cat-bum mouth about "shirkers" etc, but seemed to completely lose their moral compass over this.