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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this is probably illegal, asking a pregnant woman to swap days off, so she attend midwife visits on her day off

118 replies

RedCherryPie · 18/06/2014 20:18

This has happened to a good a friend of mine and I am livid

She is having a v difficult pregnancy

Her workplace have said to her lets swap you day off from thu to the as that's when you have all your midwife appointments

Surely they are not allowed to say that

She doesn't want to swap as she's struggling to keep going with work and needs her day off to actually have a break not spend the most of it going to and from and hanging around for appointments

I am fuming
Do you think this is actually illegal asking her to do this

OP posts:

Original poster

RedCherryPie · 19/06/2014 14:13

She's seen her GP this am and been signed off for the nect five weeks so that's when she's starting her mat leave which I believe is as early as possible as she's struggling with sickness and being sick and tirdness and all the rest off it

She's struggling too much really
Poor love

Anyway I think her GP was pretty disgusted to hear how her workplace has been treating her and has sorted it out

OP posts:

Pregnantberry · 19/06/2014 14:28

Glad she will get some rest OP!

Thankfully, we live in a country where the law doesn't agree with all the PP taking her bosses side.

alwaysblonde · 20/06/2014 00:32

She needs to just say no!

Original poster

RedCherryPie · 21/06/2014 09:56

She won't have the hassle of saying no to them now

OP posts:

deakymom · 21/06/2014 10:13

i worked for a small company and got pregnant my boss sent his wife (who ran the office) on a course to make sure they did everything right i ended up being made redundant from the same company there was a "technicality" where i could sue for wrongful dismissal i didn't because they treated me fairly and offered me a job in the future if ever they had one don't burn your bridges!

fluffymouse · 21/06/2014 10:19

I'm no expert but it sounds dodgy. Is she a member of a union?

They would probably be the best people to contact for advise.

diddl · 21/06/2014 10:23

So for the sake of a few hrs, the workplace have lost her for 5wks!

Hope the rest does her good.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 21/06/2014 10:29

What's the betting they still try and pester her to come in, they dont sound very clued up on pregnancy rights.

WashingFanatic · 21/06/2014 10:43

I think it's completely reasonable.

I manage a team of 12 people. If anyone asks for time off for a non-emergency appointment (exception being hospital appointments that are arranged months in advance and you just get 'given' a day) then I ask them why they've not arranged it on their day off.

It is company policy for appointments to always take place on a nwd, if possible. Dentist, midwife, blood test, optician...there is usually no reason you can't arrange this type of appointment on a day when you are not expected in work, if of course you get a week day off anyway. Which means you're basically taking the piss.

In this situation, if she'd arranged a MW appointment for the Wednesday and she had the Thursday off, then yes, i'd be switching her day off to Wednesday (as long as there was no other recognised reason why she 'needed' Thursdays off, such as no childcare or something).

I wouldn't make anyone work time back for an appointment, if they generally work Mon-Fri and they can't get appointments for whatever on a Saturday. But if you already have a weekday off a week then you are taking the piss. Pregnant or not.

WashingFanatic · 21/06/2014 10:49

I think the point is, if the only time that appointments can take place is when you're in work, you get time off.

So if blood tests can only be done Monday-Friday. You work Monday-Friday. You get time off. You're not asked to work it back or change days as it's not your fault.

You generally work Tuesday-Saturday. You arrange a weekly blood test for every Tuesday. You're taking the piss, and if you won't change your weekly appointment to the Monday when it can take place, you have your day off switched from Monday to Tuesday.

MaryWestmacott · 21/06/2014 11:19

Washing - agreed, it's understood that you should try to do personal things (and medical appointments are personal appointments) in your own time. If you cant and you need appointments, then your company can give you the time off, but you are supposed to try to get them in your own time, not works. And not having childcare on your off days doesn't cut it (as a Parttimer I worked with found out, she was so angry she was told that if she could have her midwife appointments on Mondays or Tuesdays - the days she didn't work - then they wouldn't give her the time off to have them on a wednesday just because she prefered to have the appointments when her DC1 was in childcare).

you have a right to time off if there's no alternative, if there is an alternative (including early morning or evening appointments), your company isn't unreasonable to ask for you to take them.

And I doubt her Midwife has signed her off for 5 weeks because they swapped her day off. If she's not fit to work in that time, it's better she's off rather than struggling in and not doing a good job.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 21/06/2014 11:25

Unfortunately for Op's friend, she can only get Midwife appointments on Tuesday, so it isnt like she was being difficult on purpose, nor did she want the entire day off.

AnneEyhtMeyer · 21/06/2014 11:26

Washing - you are lucky no one has pulled you up on this. You cannot do this for pregnancy-related appointments. I think you should speak to your HR department to get some training.

BetsyBell · 21/06/2014 11:29

It's not the point I realise, but her GP will likely sign her off for a couple of weeks rest if she's struggling to work full time. I had to do the same. Some pregnancies are harder than others and she should rest if she needs to.

I suspect her work thinks they are being helpful rather than wilfully difficult. Though I could be wrong and it doesn't change the legal status of their actions.

Original poster

RedCherryPie · 21/06/2014 11:32

washing sounds like you need some training
you could get yourself into trouble if your not v careful

the mw is only on tue

OP posts:

MaryWestmacott · 21/06/2014 11:36

Washing, actually, reading what you said again, I think in that case, where the woman could move her blood test to a non work day, then swapping the day wouldn't be the correct action, refusing the time off would be, employers are allowed to ask you to try to move your appointment to non-work time, they only have to give you the time off if your appointment can't be in non-work time, so in that case a simple "no" would be perfectly legal.

(Of course if some weeks they just couldn't get a Monday appointment, that would be a different matter)

slightlyglitterstained · 21/06/2014 11:46

IME our local midwives have certain days when they run clinics, and other days are allocated to visiting new mothers and babies at home. I was never offered a choice of days to visit the midwife, neither was I able to pick and choose hospital appointments in the way Washing seems to think is possible.

I would second the advice to raise this in Employment Issues to get real advice rather than just a lot of different opinions.

MaryWestmacott · 21/06/2014 11:49

Mind you, I am astounded by how many parts of the country arrange their midwifery services in such an inaccessible way! With dc1 I lived in London until 7 months then moved to kent so had the rest of my care for dc1 and all of for dc2, both in London and kent, midwife appointments were available on a range of days, none of this one day in each GPS practice and that gps patients only being able to get appointments on that day, in both cases, the midwife was based at one place and various doctors patients went to her on the day that suited.

I barely saw my doctor in either pregnancy, even with complications, as my reaction to a problem was to book to see the midwife, if you can only get a midwife appointment on one day, it seems a pretty crap level of care for the other 6 days of the week...

WhoWantsToLiveForever · 21/06/2014 12:06

Washing your company policy is fine for most employees except that pregnant and disabled employees are protected by legislation. They should be allowed disability related or pregnancy related time off and it must be paid. That said, there is nothing wrong to ask them to move a working day but it is discriminatory to refuse a midwife appt to a pregnant woman.

MissDuke · 21/06/2014 12:14

Trying to change someone's work pattern just because she is pregnant is def not on!

I worked three days a week for years, and definitely felt obliged to fit appointments in on my day off. I made all my mw appts for first thing in the morning so I was still in work for 9am, suited me better than driving back and forward later in the day anyway.

Hope your friend feels better now she can rest :-)

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 21/06/2014 12:24

Most of us would probably try and book midwife appointments at a time that caused the least issues at work. Or on our days off if it was convenient. My midwife only did clinic on a Monday, and I worked mondays.

You might think its out of order for her to havr appointments on her working days and think she should swap her days. The law says you have to pay her and you can't ask her to swap days. Pregnancy related appointments are protected, unlike normal dental/health appointments.

Also, if I have to see the Dr during working hours, my employer recognizes that an employee who takes care of their own health is a good thing and just asks me to make up the time another day or at home. So glad I work for someone reasonable.

WashingFanatic · 21/06/2014 19:41

washing sounds like you need some training . you could get yourself into trouble if your not v careful

Do me a favour.

So hypothetically - a pregnant woman works Mon-Wed every week. Her midwife is available Mon-Fri every week and the pregnant woman chooses when the appointments are.

You really think that when she rocks up to work saying she's arranged them for every Monday, that's just fine?

Er no...if you're off on a Thursday and Friday, you take your appointment then. Pregnancy related or not.

There is nothing illegal about this. Why should the company pay for the time off when you could easily arrange them for your nwds?

WashingFanatic · 21/06/2014 19:46

And regarding HR etc...I don't want to out myself, but I work for one of the biggest financial institutions in the UK...so trust me, their HR policies have had more goings over to check for legality than you could shake a stick at. And, before my current role, I was a HR manager (for the same company) anyway.

This is policy with all appointments, including antenatal, where the appointment could be arranged on a nwd. You don't get to choose to have it on a wd just because you fancy time off work for it.

Nessalina · 21/06/2014 20:22

Antenatal appointments are classed differently to other medical/dental appointments, and it is a legal right to be given paid time off to go to them.

I'm a manager too, and my team are all full time, but like the OP's friend, we all get a day off in the week (because we work some weekends), and I expect my team where possible to make medical appointments on their day off, and if they don't, I'm not obliged to agree to their going, or I can ask them to work the time back.

Should one of them fall pregnant, this would not be the case. If they had an antenatal appointment on a working day, I would have to let them go, and I would not be able to ask them to work the time back, because that's the law. However I would expect that my team (because we are a team), would try to arrange their appointments at a time that suited the business, so beginning or end of day, or on their day off if they could. It's just common courtesy. However, if they couldn't, or wouldn't, I'd just have to suck it up.

In actual fact I'm pregnant myself. I get Thursdays off, and my midwife only works Thursdays, so all of my appointments are on my own time! I'm quite glad really, because I'd feel bad taking work time out even though I'm 'allowed'. I even managed to move both my scans to a Thursday! But if my midwife had only worked Mondays, I'd have had to take the time off to go. I would not move my day off because that would be inconvenient for me.

MaryWestmacott · 21/06/2014 20:29

Nassalina - that right to paid time off to go them is only if they ca'nt be in non-work times. And your employer has the right to ask you to tryto move it to a non-work time if at all possible. If it's not possible, then you have a right to paid time off, but not if it just is preferable to you to go during work time than your own.

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