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Original poster

To report family members for benefit fraud

176 replies

Blueberrymuffint0p · 18/06/2014 20:09

Suspected benefit fraud I should say.

My cousin and his wife have 5 children. I know nothing about their financial situation ie.if they're struggling, in debt etc. cousin works full time, cousin in law is a part time self employed beautician.

12 months ago they announced they were having a trial separation. Cousin moved in with his mum (my auntie) He spent all his time at the family home but used aunts house to sleep in. This started to tail off about 6 months ago when he'd only sleep at aunts house about twice a week.

A couple of weeks ago he drops into conversation that they think the house is being 'watched' he hints at social services (they've had dealings with the family before). Suddenly he's back to sleeping at my aunts every night again.

They seem to be, in every other way a normal couple. They spend weekends together, nights out etc. It seems pretty obvious that they're on the fiddle and it's hard working people like my husband and I who are picking up the bill not to mention the pressure on my elderly aunt who's worried sick about her son. She doesn't know if the marriage is on the rocks and is washing his clothes, cooking meals etc. When asked directly he mumbles about things being 'complicated'

I don't know what to make of it. Should I keep out of it or make a phone call?

OP posts:
Darkesteyes · 19/06/2014 18:32

Corey what an absolutely ridiculous situation.

Canthisonebeused I totally agree.

allisgood1 · 19/06/2014 18:40

And this is why the job of benefit fraud investigators exists. To determine whether or not a person is committing fraud.

allisgood1 · 19/06/2014 18:41

And if people have their benefits revoked while being investigated then that issue needs to be addressed as it shouldn't happen. But it won't ever stop me reporting someone.

UncleT · 19/06/2014 18:50

To those posting figures up thread, is it really so hard to understand that a small proportion of a whopping amount is still a very large amount? The kind of sums that could mean new hospitals, schools and the like - things that have a real impact on a community. Oh, but it's OK because we spend more on pensions? And, it's also OK because other people nick larger sums than individual benefit cheats? Complete tosh. I'm sick to death of the attempts to justify things by saying that worse happens. That, and the complete bullshit about 'nobody doing anything' about the bigger issues. It betrays a latent admission that somehow people think it's OK to steal public money, basically because it's only a small proportion. That's ludicrous.

ILoveCoreyHaim · 19/06/2014 19:09

Darkesteyes

Yes it comes down to the kids. If your separated but sharing childcare or acting as a couple that can be classed as fraud so he takes the kids from kine to school and drops them off and stays till 2 am one night per week to Watch the kids while I go to work as I can't get childcare at that time.

I went back to my old job after being unemployed for a while. I hunted huh and low for a job but 100s of people applying for each post. I said I could probably go back to xx xx but it means working when the nurserys shut so it means the kids df watching the kids in my house. (He has a flat but all there stuff is at mine and much easier for school) They told me no don't bother it's not a good idea as we could be deemed as behaving like a couple which could effect my benefits. After looking into it I discovered it is correct. Even if living apart through jointly looking after kids or even coming to an exs house you could be deemed as acting as a couple

ILoveCoreyHaim · 19/06/2014 19:14

It was a definite no he should not be staying 1 night per week to Watch the kids as that is fraud . If a neighbour thought he was living here and I was investigated I could possibly be done for benefit fraud even with him leaving at 2am and doing the school run

lifehasafunnywayofhelpinguout · 19/06/2014 19:15

I'd keep out of it. What other people claim or don't claim be it geneuenly or frauduenltly has no interest to me. I think it's also worth keeping in mind people do what they have to survive, and if you do report them it will also be the children who suffer. Do you want that on your consionce. X

allisgood1 · 19/06/2014 19:32

Yep the kids suffer. Thanks to the PARENTS not the person who reported!! Perhaps then the PARENTS should consider not committing the crime so their children don't suffer.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 19/06/2014 19:44

When you report be sure to mention that he lives elsewhere and maintains that accomadation and that's where he had his laundry services and meals provided.

cory your advisor was incorrect the legislation allows for babysitting provided by a NRP it is actually written into their rule book as something to be mindful of and that it does not constitute living together

ILoveCoreyHaim · 19/06/2014 19:58

She must have got it wrong then because she told me not to take the job as would be in my house overnight and I also read it on a tax credit link somewhere which took me a while to find

NeedsAsockamnesty · 19/06/2014 20:17

You misread the information,

Not one of the dwp/HB/tax credits compliance manuals say anything of the sort.

So much of this crap comes up on these threads all the time think about this logically.

They are not allowed to ask you who you have sex with if anybody,having sex or not is not indicative of a LTAHAW relationship (it actually states that in the manuals) there fore if I was on benefits and

  1. A friend of either sex made a plan to go for a day out with me after baby sitting my children.
  2. On the day I cooked their breakfast and washed their skirt

We enjoyed it so much we decided to do it every week.

Going by some of the crap people come out with my friend and I would be found to be LTAHAW.

The training that the investigators receive actually cautions them against taking 1 indicator in isolation as do the staff manuals.

ILoveCoreyHaim · 19/06/2014 20:21

I misread the info? I didn't mention anything about sex. I will find the official link from the tax credits site.

ICanHearYou · 19/06/2014 20:31

My STBX husband watches the children 2 or 3 nights a week while I work. Housing Benefit are aware of this and have no issues with it. He does all his laundry and cooks all his meals at his house which he pays rent for.

Our finances are separate.

He does come and see his children during the week but does not sleep here.

I have not found anything to suggest we would be seen as a couple. We are not a couple we just parent the same children.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 19/06/2014 20:40

cory I mentioned sex because it was relevant to the example I gave.

In a modern relationship it is not only acceptable but expected that a NRP (or a still under same roof separated ex couple) may share children related tasks it is also acceptable and expected that a separated couple no matter the residence status may have the other parent baby sitting.

You don't need to find the link I have it open on my iPad may I draw your attention to the very first few lines and be mindful when reading one section that it is intended to be read along with every other section.

icanhear you are quite correct and the reason for this being ok is that it actually states in the HB manual words to the effect of "some NRP's may stay overnight to offer child care this should not be an indicator of a current Co habiting relationship"

ICanHearYou · 19/06/2014 20:44

I asked her about the 'three night rule' because I'd heard it depended on the council and she said that it is irrelevant, as long as he is eating, sleeping, washing and paying rent somewhere else then he doesn't live here.

Which he doesn't.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 19/06/2014 20:48

The 3 night rule is utter shite to the best of my knowledge it has always been urban legend and never been correct information.

In actual fact you can live under the same roof as someone else and still not be a couple so in the same house every single night not maintaining other accommodation but not a couple.

Equally as such you could only spend 2 nights every 6 months under the same roof and be a couple.

The pertinent bit is if you are not a couple then you are not a couple.

ICanHearYou · 19/06/2014 21:01

she did stifle a giggle when I mentioned it.

We are surrounded by army here too so it must be extra bizarre to hear someone say they need to spend more than 3 nights a week together to be a couple.

Darkesteyes · 19/06/2014 21:05

Uncle T So all those people who have had their disability benefits cut.....I take it the money is going to be used on hospitals and schools then WHAT UTTER BULLSHIT

lifehasafunnywayofhelpinguout · 19/06/2014 21:09

But allisgood with the greatest respect. It's none of your concern o business. Do you not have worries of your own. Before you come out with the great I pay my taxes speech so why shouldn't I report them well so do I. pay my taxes. I've never claimed a penny in benefits. I'm very very fortunate I haven't had to.
You don't know there may come a day when you have to falsely claim and I awaite the I'd never do that' but you like anyone would do anything to feed their kids. It's called survival. X

lifehasafunnywayofhelpinguout · 19/06/2014 21:12

But allisgood with the greatest respect. It's none of your concern o business. Do you not have worries of your own. Before you come out with the great I pay my taxes speech so why shouldn't I report them well so do I. pay my taxes. I've never claimed a penny in benefits. I'm very very fortunate I haven't had to.
You don't know there may come a day when you have to falsely claim and I awaite the I'd never do that' but you like anyone would do anything to feed their kids. It's called survival. X

Canthisonebeused · 19/06/2014 21:18

She qualified for DLA for whiplash garlic are you sure?

ILoveCoreyHaim · 19/06/2014 21:27

It's In the HMRC compliance book somewhere. From the info I have read it has nothing to do with if your living together or not, its if your a couple vs a single lone parent. You can still be a couple and live apart. There's a site with HMRC investigators saying the same on a bounty forum where people have asked someone to clarify the 3 night rule and partners staying over. So I could fall into the below as we share childcare, I have holidayed with him and his family. People from the outside may think we are a couple as he visits daily and I asked if he could stay 2 nights per weeks to babysit kids. I guess this is what my advisor was working from as she said he definitely should not be staying overnight to baby sit. IDK it's confusing but I assumed she would know as she's a lone parent advisor.

Additional features used by HMRC to define a couple

Couples:
• Live in the same household most of the time, although one or both partners may also spend some time in another household or be absent, for example when working away.
• Have a stable relationship, although may still be considered a couple if they have frequent breakdowns in the relationship, have a “trial separation” or when there is a likelihood of reconciliation.
• Financially support each other, usually but not always, by pooling money or each taking responsibility to pay for particular household bills, for food or motor costs.
• If there are any dependent children, they share responsibility for looking after them.
• Act as a couple, such as socialising as a couple or family, and are treated as a couple by other people.

GarlicJuneBlooms · 19/06/2014 21:32

She qualified for DLA for whiplash garlic are you sure?

No, not remotely Grin I was just going by YouKnow's post!

D0oinMeCleanin · 19/06/2014 21:49

I got DLA last week when I got a paper cut on pinky. They give me an extra £3000 a day now and free plasters. T'is absolutely true.

GarlicJuneBlooms · 19/06/2014 22:13

I'm reporting you, Dooin! I bet you've had sex as well! Hard working people, taxpayers, immigrants, Europe, muslamists, british values, mortgage, pay your dues, scrounger, should be locked up, children should starve, should have thought before you got pregnant, hanging's too good for 'em, report and be damned. Etc!