Doing ABRSM graded piano exams is killing the joy out of DD's learning of the piano...

[CluelessCrapParent]

She has her Grade 2 next week. She's not one of those who conscientiously practices everyday and complains that she gets fed up of repeating the same pieces (even though they are far from perfect). She gets distracted easily. It was OK at Grade 1, she got through it, but now the Grade 2 pieces are a lot harder for her and more difficult to get "perfect" (which is what the examiners will be looking for). Now she's saying she doesn't want to do it, not feeling ready etc..

After we get through next week's exam. I don't know whether to just drop the whole idea of graded exams altoegther, but am a bit concerned that she would just drift without focus in her lessons. Or, whether to change syballus to Trinity, maybe they are less formal and strict? Or just carry on with the ABRSM and hope that she will grow in maturity with her music practicing and handle the graded exams better.

I'm thinking the level of perfectionism expected in some of these graded exams maybe just doesn't suit her.....is that normal?

Talk to me please. Any advise welcome, we are not a musical family so don't know much about these things. I'm aware that I might just get flamed for this seemingly first world problem though....

I played piano and another instrument and had teachers who just taught from one exam to the next. It really killed the fun for me. We tried changing teachers but ended up doing the same thing. I ended up going through grade 5 in one of my instruments and grade 2 in the other and then quit because it just wasn't fun. I just wanted to play lovely music and the exam music was not.

If it's not fun either stop the grades or just get some sheet music that looks fun and let her do it herself.

I couldn't afford lessons so just taught myself when I was 11. So much more fun, I'd imagine.

Lots of great advice. Thank you.

Goosey - Your Dd sounds very much like my dd....practising the same pieces to perfection just bores her. But that's how the graded exams seem to run, you get marks deducted for mistakes.

I do think the "teaching to the test" is part of the problem. Between Grade 1 last year and now, dd played very little outside of the exam pieces, namely Fur Elise , Canon, Let it Go and some bits of Phantom of the Opera. I think we will just not do anymore of the piano exams after next week, but I'm not confident how well she will progress - much depends on the teacher, will give it a go and wait and see.

I think I do need to find a new teacher with a different approach like pianodoodle or mrs lundybancroft. But how? Problem is we are currently living in Malaysia and finding any piano teacher is a challenge, plus not being musical myself, I'm not confident of knowing a good one if I find one. We plan to return to the UK in a year, so maybe we will stick with her current teacher and try and find a new teacher in the UK if/when we return.

Pianodoodle/MrsLundy - Do either of you teach anywhere near Thatcham/Newbury? If so can I be on your wait list please?

So in order to progress beyond Grade 2. Any suggestions for fun music she could play please?

We have the music books to the musicals Matilda, Phantom of the Opera and Wicked. We loved the musicals (dd not seen Phantom yet), but dd currently cannot just look at the music and play them, and I'm not sure she can be expected to really. What grade/levels are these considered at?

i only did grade 1. playing piano was suposed to be fun. ime mozart isnt fun and i wont practise if i dont like it. i got a b on gcsse music and have done grade 5 theory. just let them play what they like,with jelpful siggesyions from their yeachet. cant type on phone sprry!

I'm afraid I don't live anywhere near there!

The ABRSM produce books of graded pieces. I love to teach using their romantic pieces range as they seem to appeal to most of my pupils. If you go onto musicroom.com they often group them by grade.

Re the musical theatre books, it depends on the arrangement. Some will be grade 2/3, some can be 5+.

Good luck! I really hope you can harness her enthusiasm and that she continues. Of the three of us (my sisters and I), the only one who has regrets around musical ability is the one that gave up.

My DD got a merit in her Grade 1 piano but gave up in disgust in the later stages of practising her Grade 2. I think the perfectionist approach that these exams encourage actually works against enjoying the instrument, because you learn to play pieces, rather than learning to play the instrument - there isn't enough emphasis on sight-reading and key recognition and no work at all on composing your own tunes.

Eventually DD decided that the piano wasn't for her (I agree; she wasn't a hopeless case musically, but had basic problems with deciphering rhythms and reading notes on more than one line) and switched to the clarinet which, while it has its challenges, seems to suit her far better. I have not pushed the exam thing at all with DS who is merrily learning theme tunes and doing the C major scale all the way up the keyboard (but showing no interest in any other scales. )

I would also agree that your teacher method is part of the problem.

DCs piano teacher doesn't teach to the test either, and won't insist on children doing exams. My DCs play all sorts, classical, jazz, Disney. DS2 currently has Blueberry Hill, some Bach, and a Jazz piece in his practice book.

Don't forget you don't have to do every grade, DS2 is 11, did Grade 1, Grade 4 and Grade 5, DS1 skipped straight to Grade 5 and doesn't do exams anymore.

They have always had books for all their instruments for fun, and actually they won't let their piano teacher see them, because she would use them for pieces for lessons! They work these out for themselves the same as their taught pieces, left hand, right hand, both hands together.

Disclaimer - I don't play myself, but have 3 DC playing piano and several other instruments each.

Come over to the music exam thread in extra-curricular!

Stop grading her then!

DS2 used to love playing the keyboard- he used to noodle around for hours picking stuff out by ear and making up little tunes - but as soon as we signed him up for lessons and he had to start learning set pieces he went off it completely.

Fast forward a few years and he's doing the same with DP's old guitar, so this time we found him a sympathetic tutor who would let him explore what he wanted to do and not push him through the grades regardless. That was four years ago - he's still not got a grade to his name but has been as far as the regional finals of Young Musician Of The Year and does regular solo spots at school concerts as well as open-mike nights down the pub. He loves to play and I reckon it's because it's never seemed like work and there's been no pressure on him to achieve. ( I'm an epic fail as a Tiger Mum! )

My DDs do violin, Suzuki method. They progress through different books. Main aim is building a common repertoire of tunes. They get a sense of achievement on completing a book. There are yearly assessments, and concerts a few times a year. We also do Suzuki summer camp.
Our teacher adds scales, exercises and sight reading along the way, and includes these in the assessment. The assessment result is a series of comments on what was done well and what areas need improvement.

My DDs put in same amount of effort in preparation for assessment as they would for an exam.

There is also Suzuki program for Piano.

Ok. It is done...as dd says. No abrsm grade 3 next year. Fingers crossed until the results. Just need to somehow make sure she carries on progressing and developing and playing for fun without the exams....not easy for me to get my head round as a non musical mum...

She had a meltdown and panic yesterday morning at breakfast. All last weekend she said she doesn't want to do it and I think was still hoping that mummy would cancel it ( and therefore was not taking the opportunity to practice at the weekend). But I didn't cancel it, she was doing it ready or not. Really annoyed with the teacher for not communicating the requirements and expectations to her clearly, and not checking each lesson that she is actually practicing what she is meant to be practicing ( scales)....how could dd end up not knowing how to play some of her scales the night before because she didn't know she was expected to know it for the grade 2?! Minor rant.

I don't think grades are essential. Dh played guitar for years, never bothered with any grade, then opted to do grade 8 as an adult, booked exam and passed with distinction.

He could play to grade 8 standard he just didn't want to do exams as a teenager.

However he loves playing and practices regularly. He mainly taught himself, he was and is passionate about the instrument. Different people learn in different ways. Maybe change tutor. Maybe she would like to learn some simple pop or jazz style songs to keep her interest up.

My aon's teacher won't enter him for an exam until he is comfortably playing at the grade he is trying for, and has been for some time. It's a great approach. He is 10 and working towards his grade 4, will probably take it later this year, but is playing grade 4 and 5 pieces already. He passed his grade 3 with distinction. However he also does percussion and has decided not to do grades - fine by me. They have to want to do it because music exams are hard work.

Crap, if you're in SE London and want a new piano teacher my son's is outstanding. I have recommended her to several people and they think the same. Pm me!

Thanks Nicole. We will be in West Berkshire though.

Any recommendations for a great piano teacher in West Berkshire anyone?

My DS dropped doing all the grades for the same reasons. I found for one term a year he was playing the same pieces and scales for the grades and only progressing on the more fun parts of learning different pieces for the remaining two terms. That term of practising for the grade was too long. He did all up to grade 5 and has skipped 6 and 7 and will now only do 8 so that he has that as the final marking point. It's been more fun since. Just tell the teacher that's what you want to do - obviously you want to progress and learn all the necessary skills as if she's doing the grades, just not do the interminable going over the same pieces time and again. Your teacher should be able to do that.

I learnt the piano for 8 years as a child and didn't do a simple exam. I refused so parents got me a teacher who just taught me to play. Means I can read music and play. I never understood the pushing of children to do exams unless it was something they were going to do later. Let your daughter learn to play so she can enjoy just playing. Different teacher...

My DD's teacher felt exams were holding her back and basically a waste of time. She only ever took grade 2 and grade 8, in between she played a lot of jazz which she loves, Debussy also a favourite, and lots of big classical stuff that improved her technique. But mainly it was her choice, and she wasn't held back by not being able to tackle more advanced stuff, she could have a go at anything she fancied.

I'd say from my DD's experience, keep up the technical exercises - scales, etc., so if your DD decides she wants to do exams in the future she's got those up to scratch, but really doing all the exams isn't necessary.

(My DD went on to do a music degree and is now a professional pianist. She did take grade five theory - you need that to do the higher practical exams if your DD wants to do a higher one later)

pianodoodle sounds just like my old piano teacher. I did the grades, but in between did all sorts of pieces and would only move onto the next grade when I was pretty much playing at that level. Scales and sight-reading would be introduced gradually in between grades so I didn't have a whole lot to learn in one go. Going from grade to grade sounds awful! Your DD's teacher should have since ideas of what is the right level for DD, and if not then she's probably not a very good teacher. Maybe you could get some specific suggestions on here, just to keep your DD ticking over until you can find a better teacher. I had some fantastic books when I was learning called Making The Grade. They're designed to be done in between grades, and gradually get closer to the next level as you go through. They're full of pop music (although maybe a bit dated now) as well as classical, so it's a good mix. I'd definitely recommend those if you can find them - have a look at Making The Grade 2 and 3, so your DD can go back to stuff that she might find a bit easier. If she went straight from Grade 1 to Grade 2 without any lead up, no wonder she's feeling a bit miserable about it all! Good luck; I hope you get it sorted.

I had so many rows with my mum around music grades- such a silly thing to row about! Never getting involved with DD and grades- not worth the stress.

I teach music (not piano) and agree with the general view expressed here that exams really aren't necessary to make progress. What music does your daughter like listening to?

It's very important that she learns other pieces apart from the exam music, especially with piano because the progress between grades can be quite slow as the technical demands become more difficult. Has she ever played any duets with her teacher? It's a great way to improve her sight reading. Even better is if she can play very simple duets with a friend as it could be good fun.

I may be flamed for this view but I have found that the pressure to teach exams often comes from pushy parents (nobody on Mumsnet, I'm sure!). There seems to be a need to provide 'results' above and beyond a child's enjoyment of learning an instrument. Personally, I'm always delighted when a parent isn't too bothered about taking every single grade.

I think it's especially hard at that level when lessons and practising are probably your main outlet for playing. As you (hopefully) progress you get more opportunities to play in ensembles and the like. I can't imagine just jumping from grade to grade is fun at all. From memory, I started playing exam pieces maybe 4 months before the exam. The rest of the time was developing technique and playing other pieces.

I did grade 8 when at school, but didn't play for quite a while after university. I'm now playing in an orchestra and quartet again and really enjoying it. So much so that I've started having lessons again. When I'm in a lesson it is all about technique, so just doing scales and studies and hardly any pieces. That's how I want it to be though - I'm doing the lessons and practising so I can play better in the 'fun' stuff.

Thanks all for your inputs.

Ketchup. Dd likes pop songs and fun stuff that you can sing along to like Frozen, Beauty and the Beast, Adele, Coldplay, Katy Perry etc..

Does the above fall under "Jazz piano" if she wants to play those pieces? Or does it not matter?

Also, is there a recommended website for downloading/buying sheet music to particular pop songs?

Clueless, have a look at musicroom.com for suitable music books by searching for 'frozen, easy piano' etc. I think that you will find several piano books that will delight your DD!

Another piano teacher here who can add to the consensus that grades are unnecessary but sometimes useful :) it sounds like your daughter just needs to play and forget about exams for now (or maybe for good, that would be ok too). I find the Microjazz books by Christopher Norton go down a storm with of lot of kids; the pieces are fun, accessible, and teach classical technique but in jazz styles, and he does duet books too. (Duets are brilliant for building confidence and enthusiasm back into a jaded student). Good luck!