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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find it difficult to take the year one phonics test seriously?

113 replies

xmasadsboohiss · 16/06/2014 22:01

i understand the theory behind it, but i still think it's bonkers!

OP posts:
HarveySchlumpfenburger · 16/06/2014 23:18

Really I think you've misunderstood the searchlights. They weren't meant to be used to work out the meaning of a word or the pronunciation of a homograph. I don't think anybody advocating phonics would have a problem with that. That is actually good practice.

The point of the searchlights in the NLS was to use context and illustrations etc to decode words. So for example if a child was reading the sentence 'Bill had a new coat' and they were struggling with 'coat',they would be encouraged to look at the first letter of the word and then look at the picture and guess what the word might be. There's at least one ORT book where the instructions to the adult are that children will often read word X as word Y and that they should accept this as correct. This is what the focus on phonics is trying to get away from because it is more sensible to just teach them to sound out /c/ /oa/ /t/.

ReallyTired · 16/06/2014 23:19

Pictures are there to make the book look attractive. My daughter who had better phonics teaching than my son (due to the teachers having lots of training) never guesses from the picture. It simply doesn't occur to her to do some. My son used to constantly guess and some of the guesses were ridicolous.

Its fun looking at the pictures and talking about them. Pictures are there for comprehension purposes rather than learning to read words.

YouTheCat · 16/06/2014 23:27

But children make the connection between the word and the picture. It helps with fluency and understanding. And if they see the word enough, they learn to recognise the word without the picture.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 16/06/2014 23:31

lljkk

Most of the words on that list you have given do follow the 'phonic rules'. Several of them contain alternatives that are very, very common. Almost all of those are in Letters and Sounds, which is far from the most comprehensive scheme available. They are absolutely expected to know them. If a child is having to disregard what they know about phonics to read the words you have listed, then the problem is not that the words don't follow the phonics rules, but that their phonic knowledge is poor.

lljkk · 16/06/2014 23:37

Oh sure, dS knows there are alternatives, but he doesn't read yet & was speech delayed so it is challenging to understand when to apply which variant of the rule. According to the rules being tested & emphasised to DS:

one, gone, done should rhyme with bone
some should rhyme with home
dove & love should rhyme with cove
bread & great should sound like breed/greet
live should always rhyme with five
find should rhyme with wind (the one that blows)

and so on.

English is confusing, that's for sure.

Pipbin · 16/06/2014 23:44

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.
Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it’s written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.
Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.
Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation’s OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.
Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.
Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Fe0ffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.
Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.
Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.
Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.
Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.
Pronunciation (think of Psyche!)
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won’t it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It’s a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.
Finally, which rhymes with enough,
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!

CheeryName · 16/06/2014 23:47

Yoo ar not bee in un ree zun a bull.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 16/06/2014 23:49

It certainly an be confusing, which is why it is important to teach the code comprehensively and explicitly.

You are right, in that for the 20 real words, IIRC they do try to use words where there is only one possible pronunciation for the graphemes. But those words do have to be said correctly. Last year they cocked up a bit on that and there was 1 word which caused a bit of a problem.

For the pseudowords there is a greater variety of graphemes but any pronunciation that occurs for those graphemes in English is acceptable. So 'zead' for example would be acceptable if pronounced either to rhyme with 'bread' or with 'breed'.

TheNewStatesman · 17/06/2014 04:02

Some bizarre opinions on this thread.

Those of you are are aghast at the idea of "testing" or "failing" children.... are you also opposed to hearing tests, or eyesight tests, or weighing and measuring babies every now and again? It's the same kind of idea. Kids who do not pass the screening are not going to get a black mark on the CV; they are going to given extra help and support to make sure that they learn to decode.

As others have said, if a school is getting into a giant flap and canceling the school play, I have folding money that says that these schools are doing this because they know damn well that they haven't been teaching phonics properly and that half their kids are guessing and memorizing their way through books, and now the school is getting into a right panic as the screening approaches.

Deftones · 17/06/2014 06:46

DD is one of the youngest in her year, she is due to sit the test this week and is stressed due to the emphasis the school have put on it!

She is more than able but I doubt she'll pass as it were due to feeling put upon...she's 5 ffs. I've told her not to worry, reassured her etc. I'm not against checking a child's progress, and identifying areas that need support but fuck testing 5-6 year olds, just too much

MrsKCastle · 17/06/2014 07:40

Deftones I can completely understand your feelings, but your issue is with the school, not the test. No school should be putting pressure on. If the teachers are doing so, they must have very little confidence in their own teaching. I would certainly complain in your situation.

In contrast, my DD (also one of the youngest) seems completely unaware of the test. I don't know whether the school have spoken about it at all, but I imagine that DD will thoroughly enjoy the one-to-one attention and the 'game' of reading silly alien names.

The check itself is not an issue, the way some schools are using it is the problem.

ReallyTired · 17/06/2014 08:59

I am not against testing or even a phonics check. I am against the WAY that our school has implemented. I am against six year olds being made to feel under horrendous pressure as if they are sitting some kind of life changing exam.

The present phonics check is a test of the teachers rather than a test of the children. The fact is that teachers' careers depend on small children passing this test. The stakes have become far too high. What started off with good intentions has turned into a monsterity.

Surely even the most passionate of reading reform advocates would agree that the emotional welbeing of our children should not be sacrificed in the name of phonics.

kim147 · 17/06/2014 09:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReallyTired · 17/06/2014 09:20

"But like I said - I have no doubt that some teachers are under the pressure of targets linked to performance and ultimately pay and progression. Just like the other tests we do in schools."

I think its reasonable to link performance to pay and progression. Every other professional job has performance related pay.

The problem is that if a school is in special measures then passing the phonics test is linked to getting out of special measures. Last year 29% of year 1s passed the phonics test. The only children that I know who passed last year were taught phonics by their parents.

Schools that are in special measures may also have teachers going through capablity proceedings. (I have no idea whether this is the case at dd's school.)

kim147 · 17/06/2014 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xmasadsboohiss · 17/06/2014 10:15

thenew - personally i don't think you can compare a hearing test to a phonics test. as has been pointed out the phonics test is to assess the quality of teaching more than the abilities of any given child. a hearing test is a medical examination relating only to the individual child and not anyone else.

i know teachers need to know where they're at with their class but surely they should know who is struggling without the need for this test/screening. and if it is the case that kids are cruising through the earlier stages of phonics by guessing and memorising, thereby storing up problems further down the line, surely this is the fault of an education system obsessed by phonics! i do think phonics has it's place but it's importance is overemphasised.

OP posts:
Flexibilityiskey · 17/06/2014 10:23

I think the problem with it definitely seems to be the way some schools deal with it. It has not been mentioned at all by DS's school. If it wasn't for MN, I wouldn't know he was even doing the test this week. He certainly doesn't know he is doing it. Done like that, I think it is fine, and really no big deal. It is good to know that it will flag up any issues with his decoding.

littlejohnnydory · 17/06/2014 10:44

I don't think testing young children is great and I don't think phoiics is the best way to learn to read for every child. I have one child who learnt to read without it and aniother who loved it (both outside of school).

DS went into year 1 a term before the phonics test, having previously been Home Educated. Having never done phonics but being a fluent reader, I thought he'd fail it but didn't give a toss if he scored zero . However, I did some practise tests with him to see how he got on, and he got every single one right. His teacher also says he's finding phonics no problem. Although as he can read, I'm not sure what benefit it will be to him, perhaps it will help with spelling but his spelling isn't bad anyway.

littlejohnnydory · 17/06/2014 10:46

Oh, DS does know he's doing it but he isn't stressed by it, he likes a quiz or a test and is looking forward to it, he isn't under pressure. I do think it very much depends on how the school present it to the children.

jeee · 17/06/2014 10:55

DD3 took this test last year - she didn't know it was a test, and so wasn't stressed or worried about it in any way. Parents were given the marks - but unless we chose to share these marks with our DC, our children remained blissfully ignorant of whether they passed or failed. My DD doesn't know her mark.

TeenAndTween · 17/06/2014 10:57

little I bet even if you didn't think you taught you son phonics that you actually did.

Did you teach him that cat is /c/ /a/ /t/ ? Then you taught phonics.

Can he read antidisestablishmentarianism? I do not see how someone can read that word having not seen it before without using phonics, which after all is just breaking a word into its sounds.

kim147 · 17/06/2014 11:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pipbin · 17/06/2014 12:53

i know teachers need to know where they're at with their class but surely they should know who is struggling without the need for this test/screening.

As stated previously, this is a government issue test. It's not the teachers who are deciding to do it.

CrystalSkulls · 17/06/2014 13:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xmasadsboohiss · 17/06/2014 16:11

thanks pipbin - i knew it was a test imposed on teachers by the government and that many of them weren't too happy with it. i think the government should trust teachers to teach without this continual bean counting! my little one had the test yesterday, but someone else's mum passed on that info to me. so obviously my little one not taking it too seriously. if and when i find out the result i won't tell him unless he asks.

OP posts: