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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to praise Boris Johnson

93 replies

Sallyingforth · 16/06/2014 10:26

for his comments on Tony Blair who wants us to go to war again in Iraq.

Writing in his weekly column, the Mayor of London said he has "come to the conclusion that Tony Blair has finally gone mad".

"The Iraq war was a tragic mistake; and by refusing to accept this, Blair is now undermining the very cause he advocates"

"I can understand that he feels very, very shattered and guilty... but my general message would be to put a sock in it really. Paper bag on head time is my advice"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27864603

We lost many brave troops - and a scientist who died under very suspicious circumstances - and now Blair wants to do it again.

OP posts:
Sallyingforth · 17/06/2014 09:49

And yet Blair is a practising Catholic.
I'd love to know what he owns up to in the confessional box.
Does he think he can lie to God and get away with it?
Does he feel guilty about Dr Kelly?

OP posts:
mimishimmi · 17/06/2014 09:53

If it's any consolation to him, I do think he and Bush were lackeys, quite possibly unwilling ones at times, of much more powerful forces...the ones that pretty much bankrolled and armed the devastation of so much of Europe/Western world (well all over really). They still consider us their serfs although birthrates have collapsed in response. The real war criminals are not the ones getting their names in the paper.

Sallyingforth · 17/06/2014 11:11

shimmi Are you David Icke?

OP posts:
DenzelWashington · 17/06/2014 11:13

It is worth saying though, that the outcome of overthrowing Saddam did not have to be as bad as it has been.

If the war was a mistake/massive hubristic error, then the abject failure of the Americans in particular to plan for and adequately fund the post-war re-building was an even larger mistake.

If they had done that differently, I suspect Iraq would not have collapsed so badly.

Idontseeanyicegiants · 17/06/2014 11:37

Isn't the outcome of the Chilcott enquiry due this year (or at least what they're allowed to publish)? I suspect Blair is arse covering just in case he gets flamed in the result. A public 'I did what I thought was best' in preparation.
Boris might only be saying what he thinks the voters want to hear in the run up to a general election but at least he's saying it, and as a result admitting he was wrong to support it. and frankly all politicians of all parties do exactly the same don't they?

prettybird · 17/06/2014 12:13

Just think, if all those billions spent on the war ( and the war in Afghanistan) had been spent on humanitarian aid and helping the actual populace, what might the world look like now?

Contrary to what Bliar says, other studies (on iPod, so can't search and link) have said that the West's misguided intervention helped foment divisions and acted as a fantastic recruiting tool for Al Quaeda and other radical groups.

And it's not a case of hindsight being wonderful. Millions of people (me included) marched saying "No" to the War and predicting what would happen. And whilst a majority the MPs voted in favour of the War on the basis of dodgy information and a naive belief that there must be some other hidden reason for doing it and they should trust their leaders it wasn't just the Lib Dems that opposed it: the SNP and Plaid Cymru were excoriated for their vocal opposition. ANd many people challenged the basis of the dodgy dossier at the time - and the fact that the the inspectors hadn't been able to finish their job and had not found any evidence of WMD so far.

That they confirmed after the war that there weren't any but Bliar tries to post-hoc justify his actions and say "Ah but, they retained the capability of building them". His arrogance is breathtaking.

I was full of hope when New Labour came into power. I didn't realise then that they were wolves in sheeps' clothing who would sell their souls for power. Many of the nasty things that the current ConDem Coalition are implementing are things that were initially New Tories Labour ideas in the first place, like the Bedroom Tax and ESA - I will never ever vote for them again Angry As someone else said, Thatcher you knew what you were getting and at least she had principles (even if I didn't agree with them). With Bliar it is all about him and his hubris, arrogance and delusion.

and breeeaaaatthhhe Wink

ProfessorDent · 17/06/2014 12:24

At the risk of turning this into another Mumsnet thread, Blair really is a classic narcissist. It's all about him, and it's never his fault. He talked about the possible bombing of Iran a while back, over their nuclear programme, didn't he? The thing is, if it's never his fault, then intervention is always the best option from his point of view, because if it goes well he can take the credit, if it goes wrong, well, it's due to circumstances beyond his control.

No wonder he wants to put himself forward for every top job going. Most of us would hesitate to do that, wondering if we have the skill or qualifications. But in his eyes, the man simply cannot fail. If you read his memoirs, his only failures are the ban on fox hunting and introducing the Freedom of Information Act. Those are the only things for which he castigates himself.

He sees himself as a sort of James Bond, who can go on these foreign policy adventures and succeed through sheer personal charisma and triumph of will.

That said, as for Corygirl and William Rees Mogg's allegation of a nervous breakdown, well, I never heard that. I would have thought that would have come out from disaffected Labour members, such as Claire Short, or types like Galloway. Not sure I should believe Rees Mogg's allegation just because it's on his deathbed, and what's more, it is a bit unPC to say that a nervous breakdown is the equivalent of insanity, we shouldn't really be saying that just because we don't like Blair much, I mean you wouldn't say it about some ordinary Joe in an ordinary job.

Writer Matthew Parris has supposed that Blair is actually mad, but it's a hard one to call really. Blair does have this hypermanic onwards and upwards attitude, he says history will judge his actions, but he doesn't tend to say that about successful Labour policies does he? Perhaps history will judge his immigration policy, viewed as a success at the time, differently too? I mean, history looks kindly on the Black Death - it reduced the population so that numbers did not outstrip agricultural produce, and boosted peasants' employment rights too, but for all that you'd struggle to call the Black Death a 'good thing'.

DenzelWashington · 17/06/2014 12:38

There was a DA Notice on some family stuff. They genuinely had a hard time, and that must have been hellish on its own let alone added to the stresses of the job. I'm sure he was badly affected, but agree that does not mean he was insane, or incapacitated. How much it threw off his judgment, we can't know.

Christwaddle · 17/06/2014 13:56

It's ok.
He converted to Catholicism a while back, didn't he?
So, he can just tell the priest how very sorry he is and be forgiven.
Or repent on his deathbed, of course.
And I truly believe that is all he cares about...himself.
I voted for that man....twice.
I am appalled at what he has shown himself to be.

GobbolinoCat · 17/06/2014 16:56

Great Post Proff Dent "Perhaps history will judge his immigration policy, viewed as a success at the time, differently too?"

The crime of the century....the submersing of all the poor in the UK by more poor from the EU...the swamping of small chairties helping homeless and destitute by more poor people coming in....

Swamping crippled services with more....people.

Hideous awful man Angry

rumbleinthrjungle · 17/06/2014 17:15

Hold on, at what time was Blair sane? Confused

He and Mandelson could both keep a Psychiatrist busy, I'd love to hear one comment on megalomania and the New Labour party. Mandelson's biography was staggering reading, not for what he talked about but the terms in which he talked.

Idontseeanyicegiants · 17/06/2014 19:21

Alistair Campbell's diaries were eye opening reading. He might have a problem with telling the truth but he's pretty blunt about Tony Blair and what a bastard he could be. I read them thinking that If this is what his friends think of him and are happy to go public with what do his enemies really think?

PlatinumPrincess007 · 17/06/2014 21:43

The only reason this is being readdressed is following the votes from public who went with alternative parties. Whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant it's moving forwards that counts. Come on politicians; Don't chat about the past - fix the future!

joanofarchitrave · 17/06/2014 21:48

This is definitely arguing about the past, but just for the record, some MPs of all parties voted against the war.

list here

ShineSmile · 17/06/2014 21:56

Borris is just saying that to get Labour votes. Where was he when it was time to speak up? Is he speaking up now about the tyrannical Syrian regime for example?

prettybird · 17/06/2014 22:08

True Joan - there were a few honourable Labour MPs (including Kate Howey and Jack Straw - I remember his biting speech) and a few honourable Tory MPs (including "grandees" such as Ken Clarke and John Gummer).

But iirc, they were going against the party whip and therefore I still hold the Labour Party and Conservative Party culpable. Angry

BoffinMum · 19/06/2014 17:42

Firstchoice, that was Euan, who got rat arsed after GCSEs and was found in a gutter, then taken into a police station for his own protection. Cheri was staying at Cliff Richard's villa in Portgual as she had just had Leo. Tony was supposed to be in charge of the other kids. There was total and utter panic amongst the higher echelons because Chinese whispers went around saying Ian Blair had been found drunk in a gutter, and he was Met Police Commissioner at the time. Then everyone realised they were talking about Euan. Cheri then came back, and if I recall correctly, was caught fare dodging at a railway station as she only had Portguese Escudos in her purse, hadn't bought a train ticket, and was fined accordingly (unless I am mixing up her trips to Portugal, of which I understand there was many).

These are the type of people we put in charge of running the country and the judiciary.

firstchoice · 20/06/2014 12:03

BoffinMum - that's hilarious!

Of course, kids do do silly things after exams, but parents in a council estate would be held more 'responsible' than these clowns. I remember thinking that after ShineyDave left his daughter in a pub one day (does anyone recall). If I had done that I could quite rightly have had SS involvement, but then, I am just a prole.

Have to say, I can entirely imagine Cherie fair dodging.
Who was the Tory found travelling 1st class on a standard ticket and refusing to move, does anyone know?

They are so ENTITLED, aren't they? Angry

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