to praise Boris Johnson

[Sallyingforth]

for his comments on Tony Blair who wants us to go to war again in Iraq.

Writing in his weekly column, the Mayor of London said he has "come to the conclusion that Tony Blair has finally gone mad".

"The Iraq war was a tragic mistake; and by refusing to accept this, Blair is now undermining the very cause he advocates"

"I can understand that he feels very, very shattered and guilty... but my general message would be to put a sock in it really. Paper bag on head time is my advice"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27864603

We lost many brave troops - and a scientist who died under very suspicious circumstances - and now Blair wants to do it again.

I agree the press know his views will be controversial and so does Boris and responding to them with put a sock in it makes it all sound Bonkers but nice and down to earth posh chap Boris like and get him the attention he so wants. I dread this man being leader of the Tory party

meant Boris is hypocritical not hypercritical in previous post bloody autocorrection

Yes I agree Freudian, no fan of Boris at all. First time I read this though I couldn't get past the fact that Tony Blair felt able to air his opinion. He is not a respected elder statesman, its a shameful period in recent history.

Freudian - I used to have some respect for Boris but I don't any more.

However, my ghast is more flabbered by Blair feeling he can speak as some sort of moral arbiter (HOW did that man get to be Middle East Peace Envoy? really - did he do some Faustian Pact or something?)

Blair seems to have thought that it was OK to use a dodgy dossier to persuade (would the vote back then have been carried if it had been a good quality assessment?) and now thinks it is OK to ignore the parliamentary vote about extent of British military involvement in Syria.

Britian might make all sorts of mistakes, and it is possible that some will have horrendous consequences. But I'd still rather see decision reached by a well-informed parliament, not an individual hawk.

Tony Blair is a warmonger, and an embarrassment to the UK.

I do not agree that Blair should have the role that he does, but given that he does he can not keep quiet on what is going on in Iraq

do we really believe that all was fine in Iraq before 2003 of course not and it would not have been. Can we sit back and do nothing now when ISIS are committing such atrocities and gaining power so quickly

not sure what the answer is but to do nothing I am not sure is the right answer

No ofcourse everything wasn't fine in Iraq in 2003. It wasn't and isn't fine in a lot of countries. But war means death for a lot of people on all sides. We owe it to all of them to apply the highest of high standards to the decision making process and to be transparent about the reason that they are risking and giving their lives.

Sorry, Freudian although I mirrored your wording, I wasn't arguing against your point. This subject makes me very emotional.

blair is sort of right though what we did then does not affect what is happening now we tried our best to fix things there they couldn't be fixed we stepped away and they still go around slaughtering each other again so us not getting involved this time is a good thing yes?

boris johnson looks like the poster boy for deranged in the bbc pic of him

sorry to hear that

its ok I did not take it that way

Blair is pure evil.

blair has no teeth now he can do nothing so ignore him and bloody boris my dh was there he was sent by most of the government not just blair saddam hussein was not a nice man at all it's probably best for all he is dead saying if we hadn't gone in things would be better is daft they will would be fighting anyway its all one vrs another vrs another over there im shocked it has not kicked off again sooner let them sort themselves out fgs we are not the worlds parents we can't put them in time OUT!!

if im being honest im hating this if we intervene we are the bad guys the cause of all the problems if we do nothing its all out fault for doing nothing!

you see it don't you?

DH has flashbacks more so now so we now don't watch the news listen to the radio read the paper................don't do this to other people stay at home and deal with our broken country instead

SKY has had an interesting interview with a ME expert. She pointed out that you have to start by defining what you want to achieve - and described three possibilities:
a) do you want stability in the country? That probably means a strong dictator.
b) do you want democracy? That means, given the relative sizes of the three main groups, continuing sectarian difficulties and flashpoints.
c) or do you just want to remove a proportion of the most violent when their actions cannot be overlooked?

The 20th century saw huge bloody wars to define the shape of Europe. Is the 21st going to see the wars which define the shape of the Middle East?

deakymom
I feel for you and your DH. I can imagine what you are suffering.

A friend of mine lost her husband in Iraq. He was only slightly injured physically and came back, but was very different inside. He said he still loved her but wasn't able to live as a couple any more. So sad.

These politicians who start wars in other countries should be made to lead from the front in the field.

Why anyone ever believed in Blair I don't know. I didn't believe him in 1997 - oozing insincerity from every pore - I didn't believe him over Iraq and I don't believe him now. The man is a massive knob.

I think lots of people DID believe in him (and / or New Labour) in the 1990's.

I think the damage done by the slow realisation that the 'alternative to Thatcher' was differently bad, not better has caused huge damage to people's willingness to 'believe' in the possibility of 'better' and to even bother to vote.

This is the first thing I loathe Blair for.
The mess in the Middle East is the second, and worse, mess.

Yep - Tony Blair is why I don't vote now, and Boris is a plonker.

The real issue with Iraq was the told lack of planning and total lack of knowing what they were doing and what the long term ambitions were. It was just "Yahooo, lets go and get rid of Saddam"

NONE of this is something that we look back on and can say, well we didn't know/think of at the time, because when I protested again the war, these were some of the issues that I knew were arguments against what was happening. The 'benefit of hindsight' is an utter load of bollocks, because that suggests that we couldn't have predicted the outcome and how it would affect the country long term.

Everything we did - from the imperialist and hugely insensitive rhetoric, the failure to secure international support for it, the refusal to look at the evidence for WMD objectively and critically, the rushed military operation to start the war before the summer heat, and the lack of consideration for the people long term before launching the operation - just added to the inevitability of it. We never took any responsibility for our actions and probably never will.

Thats the really sad thing about it all.

As for us doing anything now to help our first problem is we are not as free to act as we were on many levels - financially, domestically and internationally diplomatically and with the current state of our military. Ground troops have been completely discounted for many political reasons already. The US is considering air support and the very ironic possible cooperation with Iran over the situation. But I seriously doubt the UK will be able to do anything at all unless there is some sort of NATO or UN resolution.

France opposed the Iraq war and since our military has been reorganised and bi-lateral arrangements made with them with regard to the use of air craft carriers (we essentially share them) it does make it incredibly difficult for us to also have an air presence, without their full support.

I've always hated Blair - I can't stand him; he seems to lie and evade at every opportunity like a squirming little rat.

I don't know what can or should be done about Iraq, but I pray that he is not allowed a proper voice in it all. Boris and the others may have agreed at the time, with the manipulated information they had, but at least they're not still banging on that it was 'the right thing to do' now that they have the benefit of hindsight.

I agree with meditrina's post re the 21st century being full of big, bloody wars and unrest which determine the shape of the middle east.

It's just so sad and upsetting to see, yet again, how fucking awful human beings can be to each other.

Teflon Tony's arrogance is quite frightening.

He's lost all credibility (imo he never had any) and needs to go away and shut up.

I hate Blair - didn't like him or trust him in 1997.
The Iraq war made me hate him - the first time I have been honestly and truly ashamed to be British...
Those in parliament who did vote for war were misled. They can't be held accountable for a decision made using flawed information
I know someone (just a normal person) who believed there must be something we weren't being told...nope -
Just Blair wanting it to be his 'Falklands' - not getting it was completely different...the pure arrogance and stupidity of going into Iraq was breathtaking.
Now I have mixed feelings - we helped make this mess maybe we should help sort it out - but not sure how we can... those poor people - whatever we do it has to be carefully planned and thought through.
(And I always believed we could, if really necessary, have got rid of Sadam by more devious means...)

I've just watched the video of Blair talking about the situation now - I want to shoot him...just shut up and keep out of it before you make it even worse you stupid murdering bastard Why they even interview the idiot I don't know
Right need to go and calm down...

I thought there was something we were not being told. I seemed inconceivable that we went to war on what we were told - it seemed such a huge change in direction for this country to take. I thought the Conservatives must know too and that is why they voted for it.

As the war progressed, it became more and more obvious that there was no evidence

The aftermath and the lack of planning just seemed inevitable.

Whether or not there was a valid point to the war in Iraq, I think it is equally dubious to suppose that there would be peace in the middle east if there hadn't been a war.

The only debate is how much the west should involve themselves in the middle east given that their power to control the outcome of any intervention is so limited.

Blair is dangerous.