For crying at the Gorilla display at ZSL today?

[Waltonswatcher1]

It really overwhelmed me . They were in the inside enclosure with no privacy . The viewing gallery was rammed with us all staring and commenting .
I just can't see how its fair to the animals . At Whipsnade the chimpanzees seem equally as uncomfortable .
I have only recently become a ZSL member - the conservation work is so necessary and the zoo visits fund it .
Am I being unreasonable in thinking that lots of primate enclosures should not be open to visitors ?
My 11 Ds was equally dismayed , we felt all the other animals we saw were unaffected by our presence .

Bee
What kind of work did you do?
I would LOVE to work with Apes, they are amazing. Unfortunately it's a lottery situation for me to do that but hey ho.

Don't want to out myself but it was a journalistic/reporting/writing type thing. I interviewed the keepers, however did not get up close and personal with the gorillas themselves as it was about the conservation side, rather than the zoo animals per se. But they did talk a lot about individuals and their personalities, different levels of sociability and different needs etc. and how they look after them.

It's really interesting that you posted this OP. I visited London Zoo with my ds's last Summer and was impressed all round but the gorilla broke my heart.

It's hard to describe why really but it just seemed so disrespectful gawping at him and he just sat and gazed back. He was really serene but I just felt that it was so wrong for him to be there with all these people looking at him. It upset me for a good few days and it is doing now I think about it again. I might sound like a loon but I do know what you mean OP.

Paignton zoo has an amazing gorrila enclosure no gawping at windows they have an outside enclosure you just watch iyswim also longleat has 2 gorrila islands which are fab

Exactly Name

I found myself apologising under my breath .
It's all very sad .

We visited Howletts, famous for it's gorillas and it's conservation work in the wild. I have no doubt that they care deeply about their gorillas and treat them well.

But I felt exactly the same as nameuschangeus - that it was disrespectful and that I was gawping at them. A male was just sat in the middle of the cage - and I looked into his eyes. It was like he knew and I knew... that it was wrong he was there being watched by people every day. They are just so deeply intelligent, so human.

When I visited LZ last week with the dc there was in fact a lady volunteer standing post instructing people to be quiet and not wave at the gorillas as they do not like it.

Not been to ZSL but I found the jaguar pacing round and round at Chester Zoo quite distressing a few years back. It followed the same path, did a turn at a log, carried on, repeat, repeat, repeat

Made me reexamine my attitude to zoos (prev yay for zoos, ain't they GREAT)

They would definitely have had the choice to move off-show.
(ex-zookeeper speaking)

YADNBU I went to London zoo back in November and it was my first trip to the zoo as an adult and felt overwhelmingly sad for the animals, particularly the gorillas.

I wouldn't go back to one ever again I don't think, you could honestly see the sadness in their eyes it really was heartbreaking.

If I remember correctly, they actually "rotate" a lot of the animals so that they get a chance to be away from the crowds.

Have you seen the documentary about a chimpanzee who was the subject of various experiments about language? I think it was called Project Nim? It upset me so much.
I hate zoos. I recognise that they do important conservation work now, but I hate them. Primates don't like being watched, they don't, you can tell.

Project Nim was v controversial though and the man in charge of it has been criticised a lot. It doesn't reflect what typical zoo chimps experience or how those involved in language experimentation usually live.

Off topic of ZSL - but Deepthought's post made me remember a visit to a zoo in Jakarta - must be 20yrs ago now - that deeply upset me.

A polar bear - in tropical heat is bad enough, but it was doing a circular round of it's cage too. Round the cage, rear it's head up, then round again. The classic 'this animal has gone mad in captivity' thing.

They also had a massive tiger out, for tourists to have their picture taken with it. This magnificent tiger was clearly doped up the eyeballs with something - it's eyes were just half closed and it was just so wrong.

This was enough for me to swear that I would never take my dc to 'zoos' - but I did take them to Howletts (as I said upthread) and we've been to safari parks too. But I still find it disturbing how we treat these animals in captivity, even in the name of conservation.

Op what are you going to do will you go back or just miss them off your visit you said you were members,

I am going to keep the membership going .
At Whipsnade we never visit the chimpanzees and now with London we shall do the same with the gorillas . I will email as you suggested . I think the presence of a ZSL volunteer or employee would help to curb some of the disrespectful spectator behaviour ...the primates should at the very least be entitled to peace .
I avoided zoos all my life , but feel the work they now do is crucial .
It has hardened my resolve though to make ethical choices regarding deforestation for food production .

When I was there very early in the morning it was wonderful to see them chilling, chatting and doing their thing.

Later on that same day it was horrendous and I felt like you.
Children banging on the glass; constant camera flashes even though signs say not to use flash photography; people shouting and pushing.

The majority were well behaved luckily and berated some of the others for being disrespectful.
I totally agree that it would be good to have a member of staff for crowd control. I suppose they have lots of other things to do and are bombarded with questions (like the one I spoke to ) when they are around.

I think you're a thoughtful person to be upset by it.

I know there are a lot of dedicated, loving staff at zoos but I still think zoos are fundamentally cruel. I don't go to them.

I joined ZSL though not because its a zoo , but because the work they do seems so important .
My Ds 11 is completely animal absorbed and was desperate to see some of his heros .
I have avoided all the displays , I'm not anything that involves oohs and aahs where animals are concerned .
Perhaps it's time to join green peace again and start rekindling my youthful anger .

At London zoo the gorillas do have access to a private space and the chimps certainly do at whipsnade.
Zsl is one of the zoos I do rate massively as they actually put the animal welfare over the visitors unlike a lot of others.

Don't see any problem with the gorilla enclosure at London zoo.

There is plenty of space, plenty of activities, and the option of privacy any time the animals choose it.

If they weren't totally happy they wouldn't be mating.

I think you are being a bit silly.

I haven't been to a zoo in over 10 years. I respect the conservation efforts that many of them do but I don't wish to see animals in those situations.

The Gorilla enclosure at London does have a large outdoor space which the gorillas can access.

Isn't the gorilla area quite new at London Zoo? I'd be very surprised if the glass wasn't one-way or at least some way obscured for the animals looking out, not to mention several inches thick? Also I'm certain they can move away from the viewing area, as the last few times I've been we could barely see even one. Same with the tigers actually.