Bullied or bully?

[Chattymummyhere]

The Aibu part is to not always believe the line "they are retaliating to being bullied" when a child hits/kicks/bites another child?

Friend was saying today about how a child at school is being bullied but keeps getting in trouble for hitting/biting/kicking and spitting.

Teachers have not seen said child being bullied and other children who have been asked by parents say they have never seen happen what X is saying is happening to them.

Yet other children are being hit/bit/kicked etc by X

Or should I believe a child regardless if they say they are the one being picked on?

Some bullies are very good at not letting those in authority see.

Oh I agree some bully's are very good. But it was the fact no other children seem to see certain things happening even ones this child plays with think X says "a couple of children are always stealing my hat" yet nobody ever see's X without their hat.

Which the children and teachers should see quickly as the hat has to be worn.

My nephew suffered from subtle, insidious bullying from a kid in his class. One day he snapped and hit the other kid and got into trouble. The teacher hadn't really noticed what was happening between the boys as it was the kind of things that built up over time e.g. mimicry whenever my nephew spoke amongst his peer group, hiding his belongings etc. so it was never obvious it was happening.

Are the ones who get bit/hit/kicked all part of a group?

All random children, In fact one of the children often walks to and from school with X and the mums, go to each other parties.

The "top dog" group in this class are never hit/bit/kicked but these are the ones apparently bullying X.

At school I was picked on by a girl who made it look like I was bullying her, when in actual fact it was the other way round. The whole thing deeply upset me as it was brushed off by teachers and other parents for a year and dented my confidence significantly ( with long lasting effects) just be careful....bullies can be very clever! From a distance she would have looked like the victim as she had low self esteem, weight issues, and attachment problems, but I never once did anything wrong.

Happens in every school and playground i guess. I think its adult nature to think that the child who suffered more damage, cries louder or just complains at the seen moment, must be the victim.
Also it is one of tactics of bullying -- provoke a victim to snap.

To cut a long story short dd was bullied and on one occasion child A spat at DD. For the first time in her life Dd retailiated by hitting child A. The teacher only saw dd hitting the other child and punished dd daughter (much to dd great distress) despite the teacher being aware that child A had a history of bullying Dd and dd having no history of hitting other children. After that dd has never been able to stand up for herself as she was terrified of getting into trouble and now avoids any type of confrontation. Bullies can be exceptionally good at manipulating situations that's how the can continue for prolonged periods of time without getting caught out.

I've always said to my DCs tell the teacher everytime something happens. But then I've had teachers say to DC something along the of 'the 'stop telling tales' line. So then I taught them to tell the teacher they needed to follow the schools bullying policy particularly the part that says 'all reports will be taken seriously'.

My nephew tells me that the kids at school bully him which is why he sometimes hits them. I was waiting for the bus outside his school and could see him playing in the playground from the bus stop. He walked straight up to two little boys who were playing a few meters away and pushed one of them and hit the other. I had been watching them and they didn't instigate it at all. My nephew had been lying, he wasn't being bullied he was the bully. he then saw me, ran to the gate and said ' peter and paul hit me auntie turtley so i hit them back' he didn't realize i had watched the whole thing. the little shit.

I'm sure sometimes the ones doing the hitting are on the receiving end of bullying but not always. Children know they wont get into trouble if they are just defending themselves and some will take full advantage of that. my nephew included.

my dd had a well documented case of being bullied they didn't do much till she retaliated then i got the phone call saying she did xyz i took her from school that day she returned briefly then went to another school the main bully is still at her old school and still causing trouble more girls have moved schools because of her but not to worry she is just "misunderstood" her porn habit is apparently due to other children including my daughter despite us coming from another area and clearly being no influence at all for at least four years as we hadnt met her her violence too is my dd fault even now we have moved away over 12 months ago its still our fault fine i will accept its all our fault as long as you stay the HELL away from me and my family

My parents had a rule. I could only hit if I told them, the principal, and another teacher about what was going on and nothing was still being done. I never did get bullied in school though. My brother got bullied for a little bit, but he tackled the kid on the ground and tried to strangle him for a few seconds while the teachers turned a blind eye. That was the last he ever had a problem with it.

But in any case, if the kid is constantly hitting, it's obviously not deterring the bullying. Hitting doesn't always work, it usually ups the ante. It's hard though, teachers don't catch it or take "tattling" seriously and retaliating is punished. Nothing is ever done until things reach crisis levels (girl commits suicide, boy shoots up the school), then everyone goes "Oh yeah, maybe we shouldn't be shits to each other". There's not really a good way to solve it. You have to get all the kids on board that bullying won't be tolerated which can be hard.

I don't think it's that unusual that if the 'top dog' group as you call them are bullying X then X is too afraid to hit back at them, but is taking his resulting frustration and upset out on the other dc's. In a way, the other dc's are a safe environment for child X.

Also it's difficult to spot a lot of bullying and retaliation isn't always immediate so in Turtley 's example maybe the nephew was a bully, or maybe the other two dc's had been bullying mini-Turtley and he snapped and lashed out.

The dynamics of bullying are very complex.

I think it's very common for it to look the bullied are the bullies.
I'll never forget the horrible feeling of being bullied. it really dragged me down and I now know I was probably depressed at only 10 years old.

I was popular in school, lot's of friends and very happy. One day my supposed best friend just turned on me.

I would have my belongings hidden, nipped as I walked by, Chinese whispers played and when it got to me the whisper would be so nasty about me. chased home. While waiting in line before teachers came, a boy kicked me in stomach and it took my breath away. I got angry and that's what the teacher seen.

.
I tried to tell teachers no one would listen. I fell behind, stopped trying with work.

As punishment I never got to go on the big swimming activity trip I'd been so excited about , I actually watched the bullies all leave on the bus waving and mocking me before going with the janitor to pick litter up. No one listened. I was only 10 but it still really saddens me.

All got better after a year Thankfully.

(please excuse typos on phone)

Corus I really feel for you. I can see the same pattern with my dc. She doesn't lie and also doesn't have the emotional maturity to explain that she has lashed out because they pushed her just before coming in to the classroom, etc. I must admit we're now considering moving schools. Do you think that would have helped you or would that have felt like a punishment because the bullies didn't have to move?

CorusKate thanks for replying and I'm glad it did improve a bit. It's difficult to know what to do for the best, and I think you're right that no matter who is violent, they have to be punished. It's just sad that sometimes the dynamics are so difficult to read and repair.

See I know when I was bullied the teachers never spotted it because it was sly digs and odd shoves.

The only reason I question this one is because it goes up to removing an item which the child must have on at all times yet nobody, the children/teachers/lunch staff ever see it. X never tells the teachers only tells parents when asked why they hit/kicked etc

I have seen X hit well punch a child in the face, one moment they where all running around happy then next punch and one child crying due to being hit.

Update..

Class teacher has said they have moved I to scare tactics as never had a child this bad is this year group to parent. It was said over the school lunch.

Another thing happened.

Parents are now demanding meetings with the DCPO due to safeguarding issues.

Sorry I'm not understanding your last post (but it is Friday and late!). Are you saying the school has moved to scare tactics with child X? And the parents have complained about child X again?

Yes X is the only child from year to be sent to the DCPO every time now as they have never had a child in this year group show this behaviour before.

Parents are going to be going in to complain as the other students are not being kept safe.

Ah, I see. So Child X has been hitting the other children but when the school speak to Child X's parents, they say Child X is acting that way because he/she is being bullied. Now it's reached a crisis point and the other parents are complaining about Child X and Child X is being sent to the DCPO every time they do something.

The school escalating it can only be a positive development for everyone imo. If Child X is being bullied then presumably they will tell DCPO about any triggering incidents and if Child X is the bully then daily visits to the DCPO will encourage the school and Child X's parents to put better strategies in place.

Hopefully you feel more confident in their approach now too.