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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that unannounced OFSTED inspections are great news.

45 replies

Trapper · 10/06/2014 08:55

The rules about giving 3 days notice were ridiculous. At least some good has come out of this debacle

OP posts:
TheLovelyBoots · 10/06/2014 11:33

Ofsted should require schools to submit in advance say, four weeks during the year that they should not inspect - this would resolve the residential trip issue.

Other than that, no notice should be given at all. They should show up at the gates and walk straight into the classrooms.

TrueGent · 10/06/2014 11:39

^"I think it's very telling that Gove's solution to a problem of his own making is punitive dawn raids on schools"

Yep. Isn't it just.^

I don't understand the resistance to no-notice inspections - are these people saying they actually want poor teachers to be hidden away or given a chance to roll out some rehearsed 'perfect' lesson?

Would they phone ahead to a babysitter, au pair or nanny, to say precisely when they'll be coming home? Or would they just walk in, as is their right?

Good teachers have nothing to fear as these inspections will give them a chance to shine against the rest; bad teachers have everything to fear, as they will hopefully be found out and either re-trained or booted out.

BreconBeBuggered · 10/06/2014 11:48

I'm not convinced that all the factors that make someone a poor teacher would be evident in a snap inspection, any more than I'm convinced that ticking all the lesson boxes currently required by Ofsted means another teacher is a good one.

kim147 · 10/06/2014 11:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

babybythesea · 10/06/2014 11:58

Part of the problem is that OFSTED are already fairly inflexible about what they expect to see, and what constitutes a good lesson.
As an example, my sister was told her lesson required improvement because the inspector saw no whole class discussion. He arrived 20 minutes after the start of the hour long lesson, and left 15 minutes before the end. He missed both whole class sessions, the one where she introduced the activity for the whole class, and the one where she got them all back after the group work to summarise it. She did try to ask whether she should have either interrupted the kids to either redo the intro, or concluded it before they'd finished, for the inspectors benefit, to which he had no answer, but the finding stood. Poor whole class work. This despite the fact that her class has gone from special measures before she joined the school to outstanding.

And I can give several examples with different teachers. Obviously this isn't data, but anecdote, but even so, I don't trust the idea that you can keep doing what you are doing, and all will be well if you are good.
Although maybe this is more to do with hw inspections are conducted, and the sometimes daft requirements of the inspectors, than about timings. There's not much room for flexibility in terms of food hygiene, but you should be flexible when dealing with children.

I have no idea where my point is going but I have to go to work so can't follow it up! I just really wanted to point out that the idea that if you are good you have nothing to worry about isn't necessarily true.

HumphreyCobbler · 10/06/2014 12:05

The thing is, with inspections as they currently stand, you are expected to demonstrate EVERYTHING you might do at a successful school in a three day period. It is simply not like checking hygiene standards or contract compliance. The process is akin to putting on all your clothes at once, just to demonstrate the extent of your wardrobe. That is why no notice inspections would have to be a bit different.

Having said that, I think it is not a bad idea at all. I would prefer it.

flowery · 10/06/2014 12:06

You can't possibly compare what goes on at a school inspection to what a food hygiene inspector is checking for!

Toomanyhouseguests · 10/06/2014 12:16

All the arguments against unannounced inspections really sound more like a plea for more sophisticated, nuanced inspections really. There seem to be multiple issues here.

As a parent, the idea of a school wasting time and energy to prepare a three day pantomime of teaching and school life for OFSTED inspectors to sample is depressing.

BlackeyedSusan · 10/06/2014 12:19

it is like the good old days when HMI turned up. a child was sent scuttling round school to stick a head in every classroom and mutter HMI.

Stinkle · 10/06/2014 12:21

I don't understand the resistance to no-notice inspections - are these people saying they actually want poor teachers to be hidden away or given a chance to roll out some rehearsed 'perfect' lesson?

But Ofsted don't just inspect teachers.

As someone else said, Ofsted are pretty inflexible about what they expect to see.

If no school governors are available because they've had no notice to rearrange work/childcare/whatever commitments will Ofsted say "oh, OK then, we'll come back another day"? Or, as Ofsted require Governor involvement in the inspection process will they down rate the school for having a weak governing body?

Or, if they turn up on sports day, or a school trip will they still expect to see lessons being taught?

Or, if they turn up when the school is packed up and closed in the middle of moving as in our case will they still expect to see certain data?

If they're flexible and reasonable about what they expect during an inspection, then fine, but if they still expect to conduct a full inspection in the current format and rate a school with no governors available/half the school on a school trip/packed up and in the middle of moving/no teaching due to sports day - not fine

Lesleythegiraffe · 10/06/2014 12:21

My work is always well planned, so I'd have no problem with unannounced inspections.

It would stop the ridiculous scenario we had when, with the 3 weeks' notice of a pending inspection, staff were running around like headless chickens staying at school till 9pm and coming in at weekends.

ReallyTired · 10/06/2014 12:27

I feel that HMI inspections need to be two parts. I would like the first part to be a quick walk around the school just to get the feel of the place with no notice followed by a fuller inspection three days later.

My daughter's primary school used to prep the children who had been hand picked to talk to the inspectors. I feel this is wrong.

I find parentview frustrating as parents have no ablity to leave comments.

It is not reasonable to expect govenors to drop their jobs at no notice. However meeting the govening team is an essential part of an inspection.

kim147 · 10/06/2014 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeggyBlondeNE · 10/06/2014 12:43

kim147 Indeed, and schools/teachers do this becuase the OFSTED requirements are so ludicrous that they can't risk doing anything else. There's an example above about lessons being marked down for not doing things that the inspector didn't stay to see. I've known friends get marked down for not showing progress in the lesson, when it was the first week of term and they were reconsolidating the previous year.

OFSTED want to see all the things that should happen in the learning cycle IN EVERY CLASS THEY SEE, even if they only see 20 mintues of that class. It's terrible to actually plan to teach that way, so hence, canny schools and staff will have something to roll out and then get back on with their proper teaching.

LeggyBlondeNE · 10/06/2014 12:45

And re the OP - if OFSTED were to do lesson drop ins at no notice, and simply try and ensure that the school was ticking most boxes across classes, then no-notice inspections would be much much better than the current situation of staff getting a phone call at 6pm from the head and spending all night getting everything set up for the next day.

Icimoi · 10/06/2014 13:04

It's viable if Ofsted radically changes its procedures and criteria. As noted above, much of it is already ludicrously rigid. It is also very paper-based and tick box orientated. For instance, if they ask whether governors are aware of certain issues, it's not enough to say yes, you need to be able to produce something like minutes of a meeting when they were discussed, or a copy of a briefing paper sent to them - you will then get your Ofsted seal of approval even if the reality is that the governors slept through the meeting. The inspector wants to see a lesson plan and wants to see that the teacher kept to it, and the teacher will get no credit for seizing a totally unexpected opportunity thrown up, say, by something one of the children says, to go off the plan and do something inspirational.

What that means is that if teachers have a possible lightning Ofsted visit hanging over their heads, they will inevitably spend even more time than they do now checking their paperwork to ensure that they can produce everything Ofsted might ask for at a moment's notice. And every minute a teacher takes on paperwork is a minute taken away from teaching or doing things that actually further children's learning.

It seems to me the answer is to have a system where inspectors do indeed turn up unannounced, but where they focus primarily on what is going on in lessons, what they see in workbooks, and discussions with staff, governors (when available) and children. They could perhaps be assigned to particular groups of schools so that they can keep an eye on progress, pick up when things are going downhill, and would certainly detect the sort of problems which arose in Birmingham right at the very start.

Dear me, that sounds very like the system we had in place before the wonders of Ofsted.

LeggyBlondeNE · 10/06/2014 13:07

Icimoi - it also would require inspectors who are vaguely local to the area, rather than teams who show up for a few days then go off back to wherever they were 100s of miles away, and can't pop back again.

kim147 · 10/06/2014 13:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

unlucky83 · 10/06/2014 13:39

I think it sounds like a good idea...if the inspections can be flexible.

I think it could work just like a food inspection - if EHO turn up and you are busy - you can ask them to come back later ...

And they could have two tier inspections - VAT inspections can be unannounced or announced - unannounced there are certain things they wouldn't expect to be able to see...announced they would want the whole 6 yrs records, book keeper and maybe accountant there...

The current system is a farce - a pantomime - and they know that the school has had opportunity to prepare therefore the expectation is that it should be absolutely spot on. If it isn't there is a real problem. Genuinely unannounced they should have lower expectations...and if it is impossible to get it absolutely right unannounced then all schools will be in the same situation and therefore be judged equally.

(best eg I can think of is a EHO inspection somewhere I worked... Unannounced inspection report was very good. A year later with 48 hrs notice of inspection - the guy was on his back on the floor checking the backside of under the sinks - just to find something!)

cantbelievethisishppening · 10/06/2014 13:40

Three days? Try a phone call late afternoon the day before.

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